The Plight of Detroit is Way Overstated (Wyoming, Davison: low crime, neighborhood)

[detroitlove]

Originally Posted by The Homogenizer

What's the whole story?

One example
The fact that while the murder rate is high (not doubting that) well over half of the murders in the city come directly from the drug trade. The media makes it seems as if anyone walking down the street in broad daylight in Detroit will get killed. The media always trying to tell you otherwise. I hate that. More than likely if you're not involved in the drug game, no one is going to bother you. While there are exceptions (innocent people getting murdered) that is far from case the majority time. Also the majority of murders involve people who know each other over personal disputes (wether drug related or not).

[The Homogenizer]

Originally Posted by detroitlove

One example
The fact that while the murder rate is high (not doubting that) well over half of the murders in the city come directly from the drug trade. The media makes it seems as if anyone walking down the street in broad daylight in Detroit will get killed. The media always trying to tell you otherwise. I hate that. More than likely if you're not involved in the drug game, no one is going to bother you. While there are exceptions (innocent people getting murdered) that is far from case the majority time. Also the majority of murders involve people who know each other over personal disputes (wether drug related or not).

Are Chicagoans justified to use this same defense for their high crime rate?

[scolls]

Originally Posted by The Homogenizer

Are Chicagoans justified to use this same defense for their high crime rate?

No. Chicago ranks near the top in the country in gang related activity whereas Detroit ranks near the bottom in gang activity amongst the top 25 largest cities. It's so bad in Chicago the chief of police sat down and had a meeting with the gang leaders. Mayor Daly even called in the national guard to help with crime. More innocent people are effected by crime in Chicago then Detroit. They released the top 25 most dangerous neighborhoods and Chicago had about 4 and Detroit had none. The crime is concentrated in the south side. The south side of Chicago is more dangerous than any one spot in Detroit. Chicago has had much better success with gentrification than Detroit has.

[detroitlove]

Originally Posted by scolls

no. Chicago ranks near the top in the country in gang related activity whereas detroit ranks near the bottom in gang activity amongst the top 25 largest cities. It's so bad in chicago the chief of police sat down and had a meeting with the gang leaders. Mayor daly even called in the national guard to help with crime. More innocent people are effected by crime in chicago then detroit. They released the top 25 most dangerous neighborhoods and chicago had about 4 and detroit had none. The crime is concentrated in the south side. The south side of chicago is more dangerous than any one spot in detroit. Chicago has had much better success with gentrification than detroit has.

c/s

[detroitlove]

Originally Posted by The Homogenizer

Are Chicagoans justified to use this same defense for their high crime rate?

no, scolls pretty much spelled it out for you

[The Homogenizer]

Originally Posted by scolls

More innocent people are effected by crime in Chicago then Detroit.

Please post evidence to support this claim.

most dangerous neighborhoods and Chicago had about 4 and Detroit had none.

Doesn't that mean that you can walk all but four neighborhoods of Chicago and be safer than any neighborhood in Detroit?

Originally Posted by detroitlove

no, scolls pretty much spelled it out for you

For you, not me.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by scolls

No. Chicago ranks near the top in the country in gang related activity whereas Detroit ranks near the bottom in gang activity amongst the top 25 largest cities. It's so bad in Chicago the chief of police sat down and had a meeting with the gang leaders. Mayor Daly even called in the national guard to help with crime. More innocent people are effected by crime in Chicago then Detroit. They released the top 25 most dangerous neighborhoods and Chicago had about 4 and Detroit had none. The crime is concentrated in the south side. The south side of Chicago is more dangerous than any one spot in Detroit. Chicago has had much better success with gentrification than Detroit has.

I am in no ways defending Chicago here, although I do live in the Chicago area. Quite the contrary, I believe Chicagoans should have some humility and stick up for Detroit given some similar historic trends and issues.

But I'm not sure I follow things here. You say that Chicago ranks near the top for gang activity, while Detroit is near the bottom. But, what about the drug trade in Detroit that the previous poster mentioned? Aren't those involved in the drug trade: gangs more or less? And what are the gangs in Chicago doing? I would think selling drugs.

Plus, why would more innocent people be affected by crime if it is officially gang-related? Isn't gang violence pre-medidated between those of other gangs? Isn't random non-gang related activity more likely to affect innocent people?

Like I said, I'm not sticking up for Chicago. I think its splitting hairs. I think for those most part the west and south sides are similar to much of Detroit, with the west and south side having a little less physical urban decay. (although its there, its just hidden).

[scolls]

Detroit has a large drug trade because it has an international border. Cities on international borders are always at a disadvantage. The drug trade in Detroit is done out of poverty and Detroit does not have organized crime that controls sections of the cities like places like Chicago and Los Angeles. It's basically every man for themselves. Innocent people get shot by gangs for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. People in Detroit get murdered for the most part for a drug deal gone wrong. In fact, some gang initiations require members to kill innocent people in order to belong to the gang.

[prairiestate]

I did something similar a couple weeks ago. I followed street view down the entire length of Gratiot from downtown to the city limits. It passes right through the middle of the entire east side. There wasn't more than half a block of intact buildings on each block. Except for a few new strip malls, all of the buildings looked pretty shabby at best.

[The Homogenizer]

Originally Posted by scolls

Detroit has a large drug trade because it has an international border. Cities on international borders are always at a disadvantage. The drug trade in Detroit is done out of poverty and Detroit does not have organized crime that controls sections of the cities like places like Chicago and Los Angeles. It's basically every man for themselves. Innocent people get shot by gangs for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. People in Detroit get murdered for the most part for a drug deal gone wrong. In fact, some gang initiations require members to kill innocent people in order to belong to the gang.

I notice that you didn't answer either of my questions here. It sounds like you've flipped scripts and rather than going for the isolated crime argument are now going for the "it's the poverty" argument.

Would you like to support any of your arguments with evidence? Because, it seems that I have FBI stats on my side but you have rapidly oscillating excuses on your's.

The FBI says that crime occurs, on average, 40% higher in Detroit than Chicago. Do you have any thing-- N. E. Thing?-- to counter that?

DLove, you might want to get in on this because it is your argument.