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Imagine this: you're a young professional with a highly marketable and portable degree / skill. You can live anywhere and be paid good money and afford nice lifestyle.
Why in the world would you want to live in or near Detroit ?
We have no livable downtown. People here don't just casually go for an evening in the city, having a meal in a nice restaurant, going to a show, hitting a couple of bars, having a nice walk & then going home. Sorry, Greektown doesn't cut it. Not when compared to Chicago or Toronto or Miami or...
We have terrible, terrible, terrible roads. Full of potholes and trash that every year seems to accumulate, even in the nicer areas. Why, if you're a married professional couple, would you want to pay $600K for a nice home and upwards of $40K for a nice car (we're talking well paid young professionals here) & have to ride these God awful roads that rattle your teeth and destroy your suspension ? And live surrounded by decay and trash even in the nicer suburbs ? A pothole lined road with litter strewn on the side screams "Ghetto" even if it's in Bloomfield. Just the other day I had to take Walnut Lake west, the last stretch before it ended at Halsted, there was so much litter on the sides of the road that it was disgusting, I think I even saw a tire in one of the small ponds near sidewalk (do they even hire cleaning crews in W Bloomfield ? Used to be a nice place)
We have long, cold winters. Climate is another big thing, there's a reason most internal migration in the US happens South and West, it's not just because that's where the jobs are.
We live in the crime capital of the western world. This is also not good for self-image. When I meet people form other countries and even other states, the "I'm from Detrot" statement always causes the same reaction.
I love Michigan, and I still like Metro Detroit, but it was a rough area with a run-down feel 20 years ago, and it didn't get any better with recession. The crime did go down, which is a great improvement. Yes, the Most Murders Per Capita crown keeps shifting from one place to another, but Detroit is always guaranteed the place in the top three.
So, if you want a nice, posh, livable downtown and real city life; if you want to live in a clean city with groomed sidewalks and smooth roads, so that on a summer day you could take your sports convertible for a ride and actually enjoy it; if you want more of these summer days in your life; if you want people to say "nice" when you tell them where you live; why in the world would you want to live in Detroit ? Sorry to be blunt.
If the cost of living in San Francisco, LA, NYC or even Chicago was remotely close to Detroit, this would all be true. The problem with those cities is the insanely expensive cost of living. Even if you're making low six figures as a young professional in SF or NYC you'll end up in a small ratty apartment if you want to live close to the action. It's all about trade offs. If you want to own a larger home in a nice burb and have some savings left over or live cheaply in a downtown area, Detroit's not so terrible.
This New York Times story from last fall showed how Metro Detroit was the ONLY large metro area in the entire US (out of the top 51 by population) that has a net loss of young people.
I can honestly say that, even if I was loaded, I'd gladly stay in Detroit. I hate Michigan, but I would love to stay in the one and only true downtown to me, Downtown Detroit. I love Chicago and New York City, but it would be a much smarter move to stay here and save my money. I can travel to both cities multiple times a year and still not spend anywhere close to the amount of money I would spend by living in those cities. Besides, I'd like to be part of Detroit's rebirth. Things don't get better by running away. Detroit's suburbs should know that one....
If the cost of living in San Francisco, LA, NYC or even Chicago was remotely close to Detroit, this would all be true. The problem with those cities is the insanely expensive cost of living. Even if you're making low six figures as a young professional in SF or NYC you'll end up in a small ratty apartment if you want to live close to the action. It's all about trade offs. If you want to own a larger home in a nice burb and have some savings left over or live cheaply in a downtown area, Detroit's not so terrible.
I agree, and if you want to talk about trash? Everyone has told me NYC and SF is DIRTY. Even in nicer areas. I even read on CD one time how every once in a while, this poster would step out of his NYC apartment and be ready to vomit from the smell.
I mean with the COL your paying an arm and a leg for what? More or less the same amenities that's in Metro Detroit just all in one place vs spread out? It's convenient but many people don't even get to enjoy them because they have no disposable income. As I have said before, if most people wanted the "urban" experience the sunbelt cities wouldn't be the fastest growing cities in the US right now. People don't have as many options to be picky, they just wants good paying jobs. Me knowing alot of people from Detroit and Michigan, most could care less about how an urban experience, that's why they were moving to Atlanta and Texas during the great recession. In fact many who come from urban cities love the suburban lifestyle. Same with some of my family members in Chicago and St. Louis who would move to somewhere less "urban" in a heartbeat. Ask them how much they enjoy the big city life. I'm sure the areas where everyone is a yuppie from some suburb or small town and has the same goals as you do are very enjoyable as it caters to those types of people. It's more like a post grad urban campus. It sounds very enjoyable, but not for ridiculous prices. I'll take my downtown Detroit or suburban Detroit areas any day and just do a little driving and keep more money in my wallet. Potholes aren't worth forking out thousands of dollars in rent to avoid, their annoying but it's not that serious.
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How is that?
This New York Times story from last fall showed how Metro Detroit was the ONLY large metro area in the entire US (out of the top 51 by population) that has a net loss of young people.
This study was from the year 2000 -2012. Michigan had the highest unemployment rate during that time and more than half of that time period people in MI were being laid off left and right, many moved because they had no choice. The largest industry in Detroit collapsed.
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Things don't get better by running away. Detroit's suburbs should know that one....
The sooner people REALIZE THIS, the sooner Detroit can really come back.
If the cost of living in San Francisco, LA, NYC or even Chicago was remotely close to Detroit, this would all be true. The problem with those cities is the insanely expensive cost of living. Even if you're making low six figures as a young professional in SF or NYC you'll end up in a small ratty apartment if you want to live close to the action. It's all about trade offs. If you want to own a larger home in a nice burb and have some savings left over or live cheaply in a downtown area, Detroit's not so terrible.
But, there's also South and Southwest. Vibrant cities like Nashville and Atlanta with prices now comparable to Detroit (used to be way cheaper).
And there's a reason you'd be living cheaply in Detroit downtown area (which is not so cheap if you also want to live safely).
Also, a person making $120k with their skill in Detroit would likely be making close to 2x as much in SF or Seattle (and likely be in a better job market). You do need to have highly marketable skills in the right field with a degree from a well known college, and you do need to make some sacrifices in your square footage - or move to the burbs.
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Originally Posted by MS313
I agree, and if you want to talk about trash? Everyone has told me NYC and SF is DIRTY. Even in nicer areas. I even read on CD one time how every once in a while, this poster would step out of his NYC apartment and be ready to vomit from the smell.
Have you been to either city ?
NYC is indeed dirty, and I don't like it at all. However sounds like "this poster" couldn't afford a decent place to live. I know a lot of people who moved to NYC, not too many who left, so I guess it has it's appeal - it just doesn't work on me. The apartments my friends live in range from OK to "wow". It's the city that could use some makeup.
SF - well, the last time I went there was back in 2011, I definitely would not call it "dirty" or "gritty". Some areas have rundown look, especially the "alternative crowd" spots, some are gorgeous. The Lombard street and the area all the way down to the ocean was clean, the Wharf was full of tourists and locals getting out with kids. Nice Golden Gate park, excellent public transport (but moving slooooow, too many stops) I'd say most of the downtown was closer to Chicago than Manhattan in cleanness. A lot of homeless people, though. And the cutest Chinatown of any city I've been too. I would not compare SF to downtown Detroit unless I wanted to be laughed out of the room. (For the record - if I could chose any downtown to live in, it wouldn't be SF; it's beautiful and historic and all but somehow I never wanted to go back; so I don't think I'm biased).
Even Boston, that has worse winters than just about anybody, is a very desirable place - for those who can afford it.
The bottom line is, there's just so many cities that have more to offer for a young well educated well paid professional. Paying a bit more per square foot is a trade off, especially when you can afford it.
To keep young people from leaving, we must make Detroit livable and cool again. Not say "hey you pay less for more home here". You will pay even less in Toledo, ever wondered why nobody wants to live there either ?
Last edited by Ummagumma; 04-19-2015 at 03:56 PM..
But, there's also South and Southwest. Vibrant cities like Nashville and Atlanta with prices now comparable to Detroit (used to be way cheaper).
And there's a reason you'd be living cheaply in Detroit downtown area (which is not so cheap if you also want to live safely).
Also, a person making $120k with their skill in Detroit would likely be making close to 2x as much in SF or Seattle (and likely be in a better job market). You do need to have highly marketable skills in the right field with a degree from a well known college, and you do need to make some sacrifices in your square footage - or move to the burbs.
A friend of mine recently bought a home in Nashville and said the home prices there are significantly higher than Metro Detroit. Not SF high, but it's more expensive to live there. Supply and demand.
"Also, a person making $120k with their skill in Detroit would likely be making close to 2x as much in SF or Seattle."
Not necessarily. My company has a SF office and those employees are making the same as what we make in Michigan.
Yes, and as our friends from Detroit now living in Seattle and the San Francisco Bay Area tell us, they have been leaving for jobs and safer living since the 1950s when there were nearly 2 million residents, currently about 700,000.
Exactly. This has going on for decades. Why do some Detroiters think that the area's issues are new and/or short-term? They're not.
Per that study taken from 2000-2012 during a time when the economic strife in the Detroit area was artificially high. You will see different results if that study were taken from 2010-2015 as the economy in the Detroit area is correcting itself.
Most young people move far far far from their homeland to explore the world. It is not surprising that they are going all over the world to gain experience. Many of them will move back but its very common for young people to move wherever the first job offer came from.
Actually, many Millennials can't afford the coasts.
Only the superstars gravitate to the "sexy" metros.
Ones in normal jobs are looking at places like the Detroit area as well as other formerly "non-sexy" places.
At some point I plan to visit DTW on a fact finding trip, scouting out some places to run a business catering to Millennials / Hipsters. A long future awaits.
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