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Old 06-22-2023, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Kansas
25,943 posts, read 22,094,372 times
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Unfortunately, not all dogs or even humans obey/enforce the rules, and that will be the downfall in some of the places.

Owner or breed? One or both, most likely the fault of both when something goes wrong.
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Old 06-23-2023, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Puna, Hawaii
4,412 posts, read 4,895,355 times
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One time I saw an owner tie his dog up to the plastic chair he was sitting on at a sidewalk cafe. Apparently he forgot because he got up, something spooked the dog, and the dog got REALLY spooked when that plastic chair started chasing it.

The dog appeared to be running "for its life" but couldn't put any distance between itself and the chair, but both dog and chair were putting quite a bit of distance between them and the group of people chasing and trying to call the dog back. The dog, chair, and people disappeared out of my sight, so unfortunately the end of the story is unknown.
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Old 06-23-2023, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,154,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
In my experience it's the owner more than the breed.
Yeah, stupid people don't understand that dogs live in a social hierarchy and in a family setting they must be continually reminded that they're at the bottom of the hierarchy because in a dog's world, any dog of superior rank has the right to discipline a dog of lesser rank and they do that by biting the dog on the snout.

Sadly, humans don't have snouts which is why small children have their faces torn off.

So, these people who let their dogs up on the couch, and the recliner and the bed are just asking for it.

Something else I found out recently that I did not know.

I already knew that humans are born with a wide frequency range for hearing and that it shrinks as you grow older so that you can't hear sounds on the low end or high end of the frequency range.

I also knew that dogs can hear well above the frequency range for humans.

What I didn't know is that those higher frequencies can agitate dogs and make them aggressive.

Think of a dog whistle. You can't hear the sound but a dog can except it's at the lower end of the higher frequencies so it's affect is to make the dog alert or curious so that it comes to investigate, but the higher frequencies will make the dogs violent.

I think it was a Pekingese, one of those dogs that weighs like 4 pounds, attacked and killed a 6 month old infant back in 2010.

That isn't the only such incident but it has been shown that infants when they cry or wail and toddlers and small children when the scream and shriek produce very high frequency sounds that we can't hear but the dogs can and it is believe that's what happened there.

Here, the caregiver, which was a family member, left the room for an instant to get the infant's bottle because it was crying and the 4 pound fluff ball attacked and killed it.

Toys, especially electronic toys are known to produce very high frequency sounds we can't hear but dogs can.

There are several incidents where that is suspected to be the case. In one, three Pit Bulls were chained up outside, the child was playing inside the home with an electronic toy and even though the dogs and the child couldn't see each other, the dogs broke free from the chains, knocked out the screen in a screen door and attacked and killed the child. In another, one of the dogs jumped through a plate glass window to get to the child who was playing with an electronic toy and killed it.

Might wanna stick to old-fashioned toys to keep your kids alive.
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Old 06-23-2023, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Sandy Eggo's North County
10,292 posts, read 6,818,131 times
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Establishments downtown, are VERY dog friendly, here. The wait staff may ask if the dog would like water or a "puppy patty" or some other such dog dish. (I always decline, except when we go to In-n-Out.)
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Old 06-25-2023, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Vermont
9,439 posts, read 5,201,523 times
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We are very dog friendly here in VT. Most outdoor dining spaces allow dogs - although I know of one exception where there is an outdoor kitchen - no dogs allowed there.
Our dog, as rambunctious as he is, behaves very well on leash in these places. He gets water, gets tied up and lays down to chill.

The other day, at a Public House (where we always go with our dog - we sit on the porch and he is tied up) a man walked by with a dog and I asked if the dog was a Golden Doodle. He said yes and proceeded to let go of the dog's leash and the dog started approaching us on the porch, dragging his leash behind him. Our dog had a hissy fit and went into protection mode.
The guy looked like a deer in the headlights when he realized what he'd started. "I didn't see your dog." (He is hard to miss.)
situational awareness, please!!!
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Old 06-27-2023, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Northeastern U.S.
2,080 posts, read 1,604,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Yeah, stupid people don't understand that dogs live in a social hierarchy and in a family setting they must be continually reminded that they're at the bottom of the hierarchy because in a dog's world, any dog of superior rank has the right to discipline a dog of lesser rank and they do that by biting the dog on the snout.

Sadly, humans don't have snouts which is why small children have their faces torn off.

So, these people who let their dogs up on the couch, and the recliner and the bed are just asking for it.

Something else I found out recently that I did not know.

I already knew that humans are born with a wide frequency range for hearing and that it shrinks as you grow older so that you can't hear sounds on the low end or high end of the frequency range.

I also knew that dogs can hear well above the frequency range for humans.

What I didn't know is that those higher frequencies can agitate dogs and make them aggressive.

Think of a dog whistle. You can't hear the sound but a dog can except it's at the lower end of the higher frequencies so it's affect is to make the dog alert or curious so that it comes to investigate, but the higher frequencies will make the dogs violent.

I think it was a Pekingese, one of those dogs that weighs like 4 pounds, attacked and killed a 6 month old infant back in 2010.

That isn't the only such incident but it has been shown that infants when they cry or wail and toddlers and small children when the scream and shriek produce very high frequency sounds that we can't hear but the dogs can and it is believe that's what happened there.

Here, the caregiver, which was a family member, left the room for an instant to get the infant's bottle because it was crying and the 4 pound fluff ball attacked and killed it.

Toys, especially electronic toys are known to produce very high frequency sounds we can't hear but dogs can.

There are several incidents where that is suspected to be the case. In one, three Pit Bulls were chained up outside, the child was playing inside the home with an electronic toy and even though the dogs and the child couldn't see each other, the dogs broke free from the chains, knocked out the screen in a screen door and attacked and killed the child. In another, one of the dogs jumped through a plate glass window to get to the child who was playing with an electronic toy and killed it.

Might wanna stick to old-fashioned toys to keep your kids alive.

Oddly enough, my most recent (and last) dog was one of the most gentle dogs of my entire life; and he had the freedom of the sofa and the chair and my bed. He was an English Cocker Spaniel who, although he did kill a bird or two, never nipped a person (after the puppy-biting stage was done) or broke the skin of another dog, and was usually to willing to walk away from a confrontation with another dog. My other dog who was equally gentle was a female Basset in my childhood, who also had the freedom of most of the house. She wasn't allowed on two or three of the furniture pieces, but she often persuaded my parents to lift her up on their bed.

My first dog was a Setter who my parents got before they got me. My mother never left us alone together, even though she trusted and loved him, but she took him with us on various excursions and kept us together a lot. He lived a very long time and had the freedom of most of the house and the neighborhood.

Thankfully, or sadly, or perhaps both, I have never had to worry about children of mine and dogs. I would never own a Pit Bull (or a Cane Corso, or a Mastiff, etc.), not because I distrust the entire breed, but because I am not the right type of person to properly care for such breeds.

Unfortunately, any dog has the physical capacity to kill a baby. Very young babies in particular, three months and under, when they cry, can seem like distressed prey to a dog that hasn't realized they're part of his/her pack - the baby is flailing its limbs helplessly and vocalizing in distress, sometimes they don't register as Human in the dog's brain. The fact that thousands, millions of babies are not killed by pet dogs in their own homes is, I think, a tribute to the bond between most dogs and their humans, given the huge numbers of dogs living in human households worldwide. The fact that there are a small number of children (including babies) killed, and a larger number of children/babies injured by dogs is sad.
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Old 06-27-2023, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Puna, Hawaii
4,412 posts, read 4,895,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run forest run View Post
I recently saw a video on IG where a lady was recorded allowing her dog to eat off of one the restaurant utensils, a while back there was one where another person was accused of letting their dog lick the plate clean. I think most people would agree that this is not okay and a good reason I think that pets should not be allowed on any premises where food is sold. In this post-pandemic era we really don't need any extra stuff going around.

Like others have said, it's not dogs themselves that are the problem but it's the careless and irresponsible owners that can't be trusted.
I would be more horrified to see a human customer licking their plate clean.

Regardless, that's why the dishes are supposed to be washed before being reused. A commercial dishwasher heats the dishes hot enough they would burn your hands if you tried to grab them while still wet and they dry in just a few seconds from the heat.

I was at a Marriot on Kauai and the restaurant had indoor/outdoor dining. No real doors separating the spaces so it was easy for the feral chickens to get in. Some of them would jump onto the empty tables and walk around including on the silverware etc. The staff didn't seem to care either, except when I started taking pictures of it.
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Old 06-27-2023, 08:08 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,158 posts, read 15,618,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
In my experience it's the owner more than the breed.
Ah yes ye ol' chicken or the egg situation. LOL, I'm split as to what factors in with an individual animals behavior. Treatment and environment certainly does figure in big. A high drive dog like say a Malanois HAS to have a positive challenging environment. In short...a job. A real job. Cow dogs are the same. Any high energy intelligent breed (including good old mutts) need something to focus on. Even if that's just playing ball with the kids. In doing that the dog is also in security mode. Watching the kids.

I had a coydog when I was a young man that I would not take on today. That's just it. In so many cases people get a certain type of dog for the cool factor and figure out they can't handle the animal. So a good dog turns to a dink. Neglected and let languish because the "owner" is physically cowed by the dogs play/prey drive. A Mananois is NOT for everyone. Neither are a LOT of other breeds and I do include mutts. I've only ever had one "purebreed" in my life. A Corgi. My coydog was the best of them all. But it took two years of solid intense work to get him settled.

He was still VERY high energy. Once he got about 4 years on him he was perfect. He was a dog you had to be an alpha with. That's the only alpha I've ever considered myself and it was necessary. He took a firm hand that dog. But he was indeed a bada$$. These days way to much dog for me. But here we get folks that get a Rott Akita Malanois or some other sort of high drive dog thinking what? I gotta wonder.

I had a chance to get a Mal pup, 8 months old male beautiful pup. A gal on a spread in another town close here had him and guess what? Yep...she couldn't handle him. I could have took him but I'm not set up for a Mal pup. My entire life would have immediately locked into hard orbit around him. A Mal is not some lap rat with bad breath and a door bell yap that all it does is come when it's time to take a nap or eat. Oh it would get fed alright. Then straight out to the obstacle course for 2 hours of focus training. Then a quick little 5 mile run alongside the truck, load back up get watered and back to home plate for a few hours of command training. Yes indeed and that's not all folks.

Yes I'll pin "owners" as the biggest problem with good dogs gone bad. Not all dogs are for everyone and some people just shouldn't have animals. Period. Let alone a high energy drive intelligent and with a streak of aggressive quite likely as well. Combined with a seriously ignorant person that's a bad mix. That's how folks get hurt. Kids being the biggy. Really stupid people keep more than one mongrel cur on chains in their back yard because the dogs are big strong and aggressive. Ain't they just cooooool though.

Often they have been teased (which these stupid people call training) so their outlook on life is pretty dismal. Then they get loose one fine day and a human ends up like a squeaky toy. That metaphor doesn't fit so well as something like an attack dummy or whatever crude truck the "owner" uses for "training.". That's an ugly situation and it happens a lot.

One certain breed of dog is pointed to as prime suspects whenever news of a dog attack gets out. Not going there. I will say that since this type of dog is considered to be the "cool and badasstest" sort of dog to have chained to your LP tank in the back yard. Some bruiser mongrel "bull" breed thing with a cinder block head and a tank of a body. These aren't "breeds" of dogs but they are a certain type. Certain characteristics built in. These are the dogs to have for them in the fighting business too.

But these animals didn't make themselves into what they are. What they will be is in the hands of varmints and it's more than likely they will be downright nasty animals. Lassie would turn mean if she got treated the way these hoodrat dogs do. If anyone can turn Benji into a stone killer it's those meth maggot wannabes. The dogs wind up having to be put down mostly even if they get 'rescued". Yeah we hear about fighting dog "rescues" turning over a whole new leaf but it's not a common thing.

And it's people causing the problems when good dogs go bad most of the time. I had one dog a long time ago that did go flat bad on me. No rhyme nor reason he just started hating kids. He did once anyway and that was the only chance he was going to get. He went after a friend of mines boy and when I grabbed his collar and restrained him he turned on me. He was certainly never abused or mistreated in any way by kids or adults and he had a good life on the ranch. Had him from puppyhood well socialized he even loved to play with one of the barn cats. But he lost his $h!t somewhere. So there are cases where dogs just go bad. But they aren't common in the big pic.
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Old 06-28-2023, 03:22 AM
 
Location: Sydney Australia
2,293 posts, read 1,513,381 times
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Our health regulations here do not allow dogs inside restaurants or food shops. But they are often outside on terraces and so on. Not normally on public transport either.

But I always remember being in northern Italy when some locals brought a huge dog inside, along with a mat and a bowl. A small dog was sitting quietly but then they started chasing each other round the restaurant. We thought it was most interesting and had our photo taken with the big dog!

Then there was the dog in France sitting up at the table next to us at an outdoor restaurant, drinking and eating from its own plates and bowls. Was much less bother than all the smokers. We ended up being the only people sitting inside where we could escape the smoke.
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Old 06-29-2023, 10:59 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,158 posts, read 15,618,691 times
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Eons back I used to take my coydog everywhere with me. There was one cool little pool hall bar I hung out at that he got to be a fixture in. When he was with me inside he would just lay quietly next to my stool and chill. Canine version of people watching. He never offered to be aggressive with anyone and he would just hang out like one of the guys.

Now when he was in his truck that was different. That was HIS truck and Dad was the only one came up to it unchallenged. One drunk idiot one fine day at a place way out in the scrub tried to push it once. He was part of a movie crew and he was a plumb idjit. He said he was going to put his hand over the bed rail and pet that dog. He was lucky. The dog could easily have broken his arm but he just snout punched him. No teeth.

That guy was an exception. Idiots like that deserve a nasty bite but unfortunately it doesn't work that way to often. He was an intensely trained and flat serious dog and there were only a couple places and with certain people I would not have him harnessed. His job was security and he took it seriously.

These days I just want a goofy playful mutt that just likes to go play. No security needs these days I need a dedicated bite dog for. Meh as far as taking a dog into public places it doesn't bother me having dogs around but I don't think it's a good idea. To many unknowns. The nicest dog on Earth can turn aggressive if they just get a bad vibe and if the animal chomps it's big trouble.
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