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Old 03-18-2014, 05:43 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,094 posts, read 83,020,975 times
Reputation: 43671

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
Are liberals making themselves second class citizens?
People who support the old model of an ever rising population are doing that.
It's about 50:50 Dem to Rep (for different reasons).

We have too many people already.
Far more than we have jobs that need doing.
Far more than we ever will have jobs that need doing.

Fewer people --> Less competition --> Better wage rates
It's really not all that complicated.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:48 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,979,518 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
It doesn't matter whether he retrains or not. Employers don't want middle age ex-factory workers with families even if they have certs...at least they're not going to pay them enough to support a family. He can work part time on a helpdesk, yes.
He can change industries if he has the initiative to obtain the education or training that goes with it. If not, and if a helpdesk is the best he can do, he made that bed.

As for supporting a family, jobs are paid on the value provided to the employer, not the individual obligations or choices of the employee. Nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with having TWO breadwinners in ONE household.

It is not 1914 anymore.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:39 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,175 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
People who support the old model of an ever rising population are doing that.
It's about 50:50 Dem to Rep (for different reasons).

We have too many people already.
Far more than we have jobs that need doing.
Far more than we ever will have jobs that need doing.

Fewer people --> Less competition --> Better wage rates
It's really not all that complicated.
It isn't complicated. Supply and demand. But talk to ordinary americans. They see everything from a cultural lens. That's for people who don't have to worry about money. Americans now must see things economic. Otherwise they are quickly marginalizing themselves.

Do you think it is even possible to reduce population or population growth? High skill jobs are worldwide hires. Low skill jobs have plenty of competitors. Birth rates are high and liberals want to "help" people.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,383,085 times
Reputation: 7010
The kids in the advanced classes at my kids' schools are disproportionately immigrants/children of foreign-born workers (from all over the world-Asian, European, South American, African - there are lots of intl. corp. near us). This tells you something. My American born/raised children stand out like a sore thumb in these classes. Why, in a school district of, say, 10% immigrant, are the advanced classes 90% immigrant?

I have absolutely no problem with this, btw, but I think Americans can learn a thing or two from our immigrant populations. My friend, who is a Korean born Dr. and well-traveled, is always asking me why American parents aren't more focused on their children's education. I have no answer for her.

I think we need to look at what we are doing as an American culture where we are de-emphasizing academics, at the expense of our future work force.

Foreign-born parents are often able to find our good school districts (like mine) and supplement their kids' education appropriately. They are figuring out how to use the educational system (even the public system) to their child's advantage. Their kids are going on to achieve higher academics, attend top colleges, and become well-prepared for jobs.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:19 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,094 posts, read 83,020,975 times
Reputation: 43671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
Do you think it is even possible to reduce population or population growth?
Absolutely. We really have no choice but to do it and for all manner of reasons.
Focus on stabilization first... then progress from there.

The real problem in immediate terms is doing something humane about the oversupply
of unemployable. We need to get them out of the picture so that the rest ca be paid better.
Ideally... that will mean enough that they may even pay some taxes too.

Quote:
Birth rates are high....
only among the least able to do for themselves.
The skilled and educated have done a pretty good job of moderating birthrates.

Quote:
...and liberals want to "help" people.
Liberals are the ones left with the responsibility to care for the progeny of the
high birth rates that the conservatives social policies have forced upon us.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: California
6,421 posts, read 7,674,237 times
Reputation: 13965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlily Pad View Post
Plantation owners (corporations) do not want to deal with Americans (who have rights). They much prefer out- and in-sourcing.

Working Americans are second class citizens in their own land.
Exactly!

All you have to do is drive any street in the Bay Area and this is self evident - Americans need not apply.

It is so sad that some will blame American citizens when it was the government that decided to give our college seats to non-citizens as well as illegals. obama care funds only black colleges and while fewer Americans can even get a college seat today. Put the blame on the politicians who allowed job outsourcing while brining in too many foreigners to take our best jobs away from Americans.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:07 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,175 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Absolutely. We really have no choice but to do it and for all manner of reasons.
Focus on stabilization first... then progress from there.

The real problem in immediate terms is doing something humane about the oversupply
of unemployable. We need to get them out of the picture so that the rest ca be paid better.
Ideally... that will mean enough that they may even pay some taxes too.

only among the least able to do for themselves.
The skilled and educated have done a pretty good job of moderating birthrates.


Liberals are the ones left with the responsibility to care for the progeny of the
high birth rates that the conservatives social policies have forced upon us.
The problem is that the population is increasing. If the economy does well, it will attract more undocumented. Liberals want to help them too.

Additionally technically our workforce is global. Moderating birth rates doesn't really make a big difference for software developers whose jobs can be placed in other countries.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:22 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,094 posts, read 83,020,975 times
Reputation: 43671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
The problem is that the population is increasing.
Indeed it is. We're playing catch up ball.

Quote:
If the economy does well, it will attract more undocumented.
They'll keep coming no matter what until the R's do something about the employers
and of course the underlying 14th A birthright largesse. Any ideas how to fox THOSE issues?
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:31 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,175 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
Exactly!

All you have to do is drive any street in the Bay Area and this is self evident - Americans need not apply.

It is so sad that some will blame American citizens when it was the government that decided to give our college seats to non-citizens as well as illegals. obama care funds only black colleges and while fewer Americans can even get a college seat today. Put the blame on the politicians who allowed job outsourcing while brining in too many foreigners to take our best jobs away from Americans.
In a democracy you can do something about it. But unlikely in this democracy. The only acceptable approach toward undocumented immigrant is to welcome and help them. When you talk to people, you'll find that they tend to avoid the topic. Is it just our politicians? If middle class Americans are truly not happy a out these policies, why is there no movement? Why do they still laugh at those who are critical ? They are acting like they are benefiting from it. They like to add "oh I have no problem with it whatsoever." So defensive. Then it is good for them. It's peoples call.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:57 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,175 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Indeed it is. We're playing catch up ball.


They'll keep coming no matter what until the R's do something about the employers
and of course the underlying 14th A birthright largesse. Any ideas how to fox THOSE issues?
Why is it just the republicans? Would the democrats do something about the 14th amendment? The only way that accords with liberal ideology is to celebrate the 14th amendment. In fact, people would actively say "oh we have no problem with that whatsoever. We are not like those bigots." So be it then. The future is what the American people choose. Americans have had lots of opportunities in the course of this nation's decline to change things and save the quality of life for their future generations. History has been very generous to america. But americans intentionally missed these opportunities. All signs indicate that they will continue to miss these opportunities.

Where are your two suggestions in the occupy movement's declaration? They have no such privilege to criticize any forms of immigration because they celebrated it, so did the majority of Americans. It is a willing cuckold's mindset.
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