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Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy
is someone with 3 million dollars worth of real estate and under 50K in yearly income upper class?
Probably not
Many people in California or other high cost areas have a lot of equity tied up in appreciating real estate, but don't earn that much in wages.
Class and wealth are IMO separate. It is possible to be wealthy and have no taste or "class". Coco Chanel said it best:
"Some people think luxury is the opposite of poverty. It is not. It is the opposite of vulgarity"
That's a great synopses of the paradigm from an upper class person. And she seems to be using "luxury" as a synonym for upper class tastes.
The book that I prior mentioned goes into this paradigm more (and Fussell is a highly entertaining writer, which is a part of my recommendation for the book).
Forgive the tangent:
To paraphrase, when illustrating how brands are viewed, at one point he mentions that a new (and really any) Mercedes is seen as "vulgar" (indeed using the same word that Coco Chanel used) because it is the type of car that an newly salaried African diplomat would buy in a misguided attempt to display status. This example being part of an overall presentation about the futility of trying to buy status, and when someone attempts to do so it is considered to be vulgar. Thus, it has the opposite status effect than was intended.
Upper class choices, instead, being older cars (any older object being a better class statement, but technology in general being a lower class statement) and domestically produced cars in the US (counter-signalling status as a way to signal status).
In fact, the best that a person should probably hope for with their choice of car is a neutral class statement, as few cars will avoid being at least minimally vulgar, though the especially astute can probably make a minor positive class statement with an automobile (econo-electrics, vintage Italian, English or American cars, millionaires driving Chevys, etc).
Some type of statement of relatively pure country utility is a minor status signal (econo boxes such as Subarus, or at least a non flash badge such as Volvo, being better) as is any brand that is produced closer to England (ie: Range Rover).
The apex of the modern auto status symbol is an electric car of any type (these econoboxes both counter-signalling wealth and making an environmental statement that is more relevant to one's shared social value system as one moves up in the class system).
However, again, technology in general is seen as a net negative class symbol. Also, attempts to buy class via purchasing of new objects is always a negative class statement. This is also true for cars, especially in the modern day of his auto bubble where we have low income people driving extremely expensive luxury cars. Any pretension of new luxury cars conferring class is completely abolished, even more than it already was. In fact, I'd hold that driving an expensive and new German or Japanese luxury automobile is probably moving firmly into a strong low class statement territory.
Personally, I'd still buy a small BMW because I'm a driver and I love how they drive. I've never found a better driving experience, under 100k, than a lightweight manual shift BMW. With the caveat that I have no experience behind the wheel of a Porsche (the one of maybe three non-supercar brands that I lack experience with across most models, the others being brands that no one but rappers and Royalty drive today). And it's important to do what makes you happy, in spite of potential class signalling consequences. Worrying too much about class is also lower class
That's because cost and quality of life has to be factored in.
The average American takes for granted things that would be the envy of most people in the world. Central heating and a/c, 24-hour electricity, refrigerators, washers and dryers, cars, and so much more are only available to rich or affluent people in most of the world's countries.
Do you want to go on a road trip in a typical 3rd world country? Then get ready for a single lane road with deep potholes most of the way. Also, get used to your driver making frequent stops and turning off the engine and lights to conserve electricity. That is even if you can afford a driver. Also, there is a good chance that the road ahead of you will be blocked or end suddenly and you won't even make it to your destination. Most of the time, you'll be taking public transportation - if you are fortunate enough to afford even that. Also, make sure to bring a handkerchief to cover your nose and mouth due to all of the pollution.
That is just a glimpse of how the average person in the world lives (if they are lucky).
Yes we are comfortably upper class by a considerable margin. Do we recognize that? Sure it is a statistical measurement and I am well aware of it. What does it mean other than a comfortable balance sheet plus? At age 70 not a heck of a lot more other than it provides us the means and comfort level to live life without financial burdens popping up. There are more important things and the income enables us to enjoy them and that can be done without being upper class.
The average American takes for granted things that would be the envy of most people in the world. Central heating and a/c, 24-hour electricity, refrigerators, washers and dryers, cars, and so much more are only available to rich or affluent people in most of the world's countries.
Do you want to go on a road trip in a typical 3rd world country? Then get ready for a single lane road with deep potholes most of the way. Also, get used to your driver making frequent stops and turning off the engine and lights to conserve electricity. That is even if you can afford a driver. Also, there is a good chance that the road ahead of you will be blocked or end suddenly and you won't even make it to your destination. Most of the time, you'll be taking public transportation - if you are fortunate enough to afford even that. Also, make sure to bring a handkerchief to cover your nose and mouth due to all of the pollution.
That is just a glimpse of how the average person in the world lives (if they are lucky).
Very very true. Too often we USA citizens take for granted just how amazing/lucky we are to live in a 1st world country.
By humanity standards, pretty much EVERYONE who posts on this forum is in the top 1% with very nice standards of living.
Always be thankful and always try to give and help out those less fortunate.
The average American takes for granted things that would be the envy of most people in the world. Central heating and a/c, 24-hour electricity, refrigerators, washers and dryers, cars, and so much more are only available to rich or affluent people in most of the world's countries.
Do you want to go on a road trip in a typical 3rd world country? Then get ready for a single lane road with deep potholes most of the way. Also, get used to your driver making frequent stops and turning off the engine and lights to conserve electricity. That is even if you can afford a driver. Also, there is a good chance that the road ahead of you will be blocked or end suddenly and you won't even make it to your destination. Most of the time, you'll be taking public transportation - if you are fortunate enough to afford even that. Also, make sure to bring a handkerchief to cover your nose and mouth due to all of the pollution.
That is just a glimpse of how the average person in the world lives (if they are lucky).
We need to further clarify "3rd world."
If you've ever been to Mexico, they have plenty of electricity, refrigerators, cars and well-built highways (lots of them toll-roads). Although not a lot in the way of washer/dryers... but lots of neighborhood laundromats & cleaners that were cheap. It was actually nicer because they'd also press your clothes all for a cost that would take a couple years to equal the cost of a washer/dryer.
Based on my observations, Mexico is one of the "haves" - it only looks poor in comparison to the U.S. The downside is that the middle & wealthy classes there see to it that the poor can never get ahead. All the good jobs tend to go to people who could afford to send their kids to private schools. The wealthy have a stranglehold on the major businesses, etc...
I've also spent significant time in southeastern Europe and they have those things too, although road & environmental conditions were a little more like you've described.
Third World was historically used to describe the poor underdeveloped nations of Asia, Africa and South/Latin America not aligned with either the United States or the former Soviet Union.
With time and history and economic growth many of those countries are now part of the Third World but as developing nations with a ever increasing middle class. As they move into the developed world economic status with a political leaning to perhaps China as a full world power developed nation what then?
Perhaps a tag for declining developed nations will be needed as their middle class shrinks while other countries increase.
panning more than 68 countries and encompassing 4.4 billion people and up to 40% of the global GDP, China's One Belt, One Road project is not short on ambition.
Its boosters tout its massive economic promise and claim it could benefit the entire world and lift millions out of poverty.
But no one can say for sure what exactly the plan encompasses, and detractors warn it could be an expensive boondoggle at best or a massive expansion of Chinese imperial power at worst
Yes we are comfortably upper class by a considerable margin. Do we recognize that? Sure it is a statistical measurement and I am well aware of it. What does it mean other than a comfortable balance sheet plus? At age 70 not a heck of a lot more other than it provides us the means and comfort level to live life without financial burdens popping up. There are more important things and the income enables us to enjoy them and that can be done without being upper class.
So I take it that you don't lounge around in one of your Armani smoker suits, posing in your over stuffed mansion, gazing out over your land, world class touring yacht out back in your private harbor? While your butler brings you your daily mint julep?
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