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Everything is going virtual, which is time and cost efficient. When people get adapted to online learning, it will be difficult to lure them back on campus. It is foreseeable that over 50 % of higher ed institutions will close down their campuses in the coming decade. Education reformation is in the making and thanks to covid!
I hope that happens. Should make things cheaper, and will do away with, hopefully, the vapid culture, and extended adolescence that pervades most college campuses. They are nothing but sleep away camps for teens now.
Colleges were already doing online before this. For like, 20 years. The only reason they could move online so fast and easily is because of that.
Online education works for a certain sort of introvert and people who can't get off work during class times. If it was going to take off, it would have already. It's had 20 years. When I was in college 2001-06 I took a couple online classes and felt I didn't get my money's worth. They're not fundamentally different now, except there's more video.
If I were a student, I'd consider 2020-21 a loss and take a gap year. I would not pay full freight for Zoom classes.
Colleges were already doing online before this. For like, 20 years. The only reason they could move online so fast and easily is because of that.
Online education works for a certain sort of introvert and people who can't get off work during class times. If it was going to take off, it would have already. It's had 20 years. When I was in college 2001-06 I took a couple online classes and felt I didn't get my money's worth. They're not fundamentally different now, except there's more video.
If I were a student, I'd consider 2020-21 a loss and take a gap year. I would not pay full freight for Zoom classes.
There is already decades of studies that show that outcomes for online is comparable with face-to-face for many students' programs:
There is already decades of studies that show that outcomes for online is comparable with face-to-face for many students' programs:
I'm not sure that's a ringing endorsement.
I'd also wonder about scale of the studies; I suspect things change between a controlled examination of a few hundred students in a handful of classes, and what happens by the time it's scaled to those 500-seat 101 classes.
There's also a bit of QCIC here... can an educational system meaningfully evaluate itself without blinkers or bias? The evidence in that direction is not good.
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Want a degree that is of worth and one that employers respect? Enroll in a school of worth and that is respectable and do the work.
And I agree with the latter: much depends on the real worth of the school.
Which, to fulfill your first statement, really shouldn't be a college. If you're after a job ticket, get one from an institution that prides itself on teaching job skills. Not a mislabeled "degree" from "education" in the job field.
College also sells an experience. Many colleges are stockpiled with different extracurricular activities and programs to get students engaged. You have a better chance of participating in these activities and programs if you live on or very near campus. Sure, you can go online, but the fat that will be trimmed are the programs and extracurricular activities, since students will have less desire to live on campus or go to campus events. This may not reign totally true for your state universities, but your smaller community type universities will suffer greatly.
Good, accredited schools hold their online courses to the same standards as their face-to-face courses (in some cases, even higher standards).
Diploma mills existed long before the internet existed.
Want a degree that is of worth and one that employers respect? Enroll in a school of worth and that is respectable and do the work.
I work for a community college so I actually know what retention rates are & have personal experience teaching F2F and online for 7 years.
Typically, retention for online classes is much lower than F2F classes. I usually lose about 25-40% in an online class, 10-25% in a F2F class. This term is behaving differently because everyone is online and I wasn't prepared to do 100% online load, so the production schedule is slowing things down allowing students to keep up more easily. This comes at a sacrifice of content coverage but what can I do. I'm already working 12 hour days to try and keep up.
Video production and then creating assessments based on them is extraordinarily laborious. My days go like this now. - 1) write script, 2) create powerpoint, 3) record video, 4) edit out imperfections, edit for clarity, 5) do graphic enhancements, 6) produce ADA captioning by syncing script to audio, 7) upload content. I'd say a 20 minute video takes about 8 hours to produce that way. 8) find supplementary material, 9) create questions and assessments based on videos and content that can't be cheated on by googling it, 9) scan readings, 10) edit readings, 11) create questions and assessments based on readings that can't be cheated on by googling it, 12) start all over for next unit. And in between all that, grade and comment on student work from previous units.
I was supposed to be a teacher not a youtuber, and doing the production all by myself takes forever. If I had assistants to help with the editing/enhancements it would go faster, but that would make things more expensive. It's SO much more time consuming than preparing a regular class.
If we were to go all online it would NOT be cheaper. We'd have to hire all kinds of IT experts, more than we already have. Graphic designers, instructional designers, online TAs, etc., etc., that's not cheap. It's too much for one person to do. If I have to work all online I'm going to quit unless they pay me something like 30% more salary. My days now are about 12-15 hours long 6-7 days a week. In front of the computer all day every day is not what I signed on for. I also had to spend about $1500 on home office equipment and computer upgrades.
Last edited by redguard57; 04-28-2020 at 01:41 PM..
Colleges were already doing online before this. For like, 20 years. The only reason they could move online so fast and easily is because of that.
Online education works for a certain sort of introvert and people who can't get off work during class times. If it was going to take off, it would have already. It's had 20 years. When I was in college 2001-06 I took a couple online classes and felt I didn't get my money's worth. They're not fundamentally different now, except there's more video.
If I were a student, I'd consider 2020-21 a loss and take a gap year. I would not pay full freight for Zoom classes.
Extroverted people can plan their social lives better with Online Courses. Online Courses is Netflix, while sitting for live lecture is old school cable without On Demand. You watch online lecture whenever. You can cram in as many as you want.
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Originally Posted by weezerfan84
College also sells an experience. Many colleges are stockpiled with different extracurricular activities and programs to get students engaged. You have a better chance of participating in these activities and programs if you live on or very near campus. Sure, you can go online, but the fat that will be trimmed are the programs and extracurricular activities, since students will have less desire to live on campus or go to campus events. This may not reign totally true for your state universities, but your smaller community type universities will suffer greatly.
What do you mean like binge drinking? College has devolved into basically binge drinking as the experience they are selling. Clubs, and sports are offered outside of school. They do exist outside of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Typically, retention for online classes is much lower than F2F classes. I usually lose about 25-40% in an online class, 10-25% in a F2F class. This term is behaving differently because everyone is online and I wasn't prepared to do 100% online load, so the production schedule is slowing things down allowing students to keep up more easily. This comes at a sacrifice of content coverage but what can I do. I'm already working 12 hour days to try and keep up.
Video production and then creating assessments based on them is extraordinarily laborious. I was supposed to be a teacher not a youtuber, and doing the production all by myself takes forever. If I had assistants to help with the editing/enhancements it would go faster, but make things more expensive.
It's SO much more time consuming than preparing a regular class.
If we were to go all online it would NOT be cheaper. We'd have to hire all kinds of IT experts, more than we already have. Graphic designers, instructional designers, online TAs, etc., etc., that's not cheap.
It's too much for one person to do. If I have to work all online I'm going to quit unless they pay me something like 30% more salary. My days now are about 12-15 hours long 6-7 days a week. In front of the computer all day every day is not what I signed on for. I also had to spend about $1000 on my home office equipment and computer upgrades.
The reason why the F2F has more retention is most of the kids are living on campus, or nearby, or in some small college town far away from civilization. There is literally nothing else to do during the day, so may as well go to class. Plus you already spent the money, and moved there. Online people likely have a life outside of being trapped somewhere.
Plus most classes just show videos too. And it cannot be more laborious, because you can use the same ones over and over again. F2F, someone actually has to put in the man hours and be present each and every time.
Extroverted people can plan their social lives better with Online Courses. Online Courses is Netflix, while sitting for live lecture is old school cable without On Demand. You watch online lecture whenever. You can cram in as many as you want.
What do you mean like binge drinking? College has devolved into basically binge drinking as the experience they are selling. Clubs, and sports are offered outside of school. They do exist outside of it.
The reason why the F2F has more retention is most of the kids are living on campus, or nearby, or in some small college town far away from civilization. There is literally nothing else to do during the day, so may as well go to class. Plus you already spent the money, and moved there. Online people likely have a life outside of being trapped somewhere.
Plus most classes just show videos too. And it cannot be more laborious, because you can use the same ones over and over again. F2F, someone actually has to put in the man hours and be present each and every time.
If we move to all online we start competing on online experience, which means the arms race moves to that arena. First it's video, the next step would interactivity.
If you ever actually tried produce even a semi-professional instructional video you'd know how much more time that takes than making a powerpoint slide and talking about it in person. A video has to be scripted, edited & produced, captioned, etc... By the time I upload a 20 minute video I've probably spent AT LEAST 4 hours working on it.
They are only good for maybe 2 years max. I get about 1-1.5 years use out of mine and plan on releasing new ones every 2 years. Students are savvy and they know when content is stale.
As has been stated, it is FAR cheaper to produce high quality videos that can be used all over the country. Is math, science, medicine, history, law, or whatever any different in California than it is in NY, Ohio, or TX? Why have thousands of professors teaching the same thing in colleges and universities all over the country (with widely varying degrees of knowledge and skill) when you can have one (the BEST) teaching the subject that anyone anywhere with a computer can access the lesson (for a fee)?
Yes, when we lived in log cabins and walked ten miles to school, it was necessary to have a live teacher to teach the students. Today, satellites can send a signal pretty much anywhere in the country. And if you happen to live in a remote area where satellite coverage is lacking, the cost of a few cd's is trivial compared to the cost of traveling and staying in the Big City to attend live classes.
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