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Old 07-01-2011, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,753,284 times
Reputation: 6650

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What time frame?
What changes were made to the system occurred during this time period? What corrective action has been taken and the result from that?

I am sure this area has been studied and we know what is wrong and how to fix it. Right?
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 83,068,188 times
Reputation: 17517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
What time frame?
What changes were made to the system occurred during this time period? What corrective action has been taken and the result from that?

I am sure this area has been studied and we know what is wrong and how to fix it. Right?

Did it decline? Are you just assuming it declined? Where? Everywhere? Some places only? Using what metrics? How do we know it didn't improve?

What do you mean by "Education"? Test scores? Graduation rates? College acceptance rates?

What do you mean by "decline"? Average achievement? Higher number of low achievers? Lower number of high achievers? Increased costs to educate someone?
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,753,284 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Did it decline? Are you just assuming it declined? Where? Everywhere? Some places only? Using what metrics? How do we know it didn't improve?

What do you mean by "Education"? Test scores? Graduation rates? College acceptance rates?

What do you mean by "decline"? Average achievement? Higher number of low achievers? Lower number of high achievers? Increased costs to educate someone?

I left it open as I note interpretation by the reader is what makes answers interesting.
I note a number of teachers post here so it would be interesting to read how they view the questions.
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:55 PM
 
3,050 posts, read 3,059,953 times
Reputation: 3642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Did it decline? Are you just assuming it declined? Where? Everywhere? Some places only? Using what metrics? How do we know it didn't improve?

What do you mean by "Education"? Test scores? Graduation rates? College acceptance rates?

What do you mean by "decline"? Average achievement? Higher number of low achievers? Lower number of high achievers? Increased costs to educate someone?
These are excellent questions. My best professor taught us to always begin with the definitions. OP, please define your terms.

In fact, Charles, we need to go back a bit further. What starting point will we use from which to measure a change? Which population?

From what I have read recently, there has not yet been a golden age of American education. Either the standards were lower or the population was a small, elite group, or both. I have not done any research yet, but it an intriguing premise.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,539 posts, read 9,952,242 times
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Charles is right on. You can't talk about K-12 education in the US as a monolith. There is a vast spectrum of the quality of the education American kids receive.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:10 PM
 
16,644 posts, read 14,103,872 times
Reputation: 20598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Did it decline? Are you just assuming it declined? Where? Everywhere? Some places only? Using what metrics? How do we know it didn't improve?

What do you mean by "Education"? Test scores? Graduation rates? College acceptance rates?

What do you mean by "decline"? Average achievement? Higher number of low achievers? Lower number of high achievers? Increased costs to educate someone?
Agreed.

OP is too broad and too vague.

Could be an interesting discussion if we define some of the terms but otherwise people will just argue over semantics.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:11 PM
 
16,644 posts, read 14,103,872 times
Reputation: 20598
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
These are excellent questions. My best professor taught us to always begin with the definitions. OP, please define your terms.

In fact, Charles, we need to go back a bit further. What starting point will we use from which to measure a change? Which population?

From what I have read recently, there has not yet been a golden age of American education. Either the standards were lower or the population was a small, elite group, or both. I have not done any research yet, but it an intriguing premise.
Whoops...teach me not to read a thread all the way through before I post.

I am now feeling a bit redundant and lacking in novelty. Sorry LH.
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,753,284 times
Reputation: 6650
So all of you folks who presumably are in Education have no idea how to respond to the OP although it was open to interpretation? No wonder there are troubles.

Oh what, you can all agree that you cannot agree on how to proceed.

Appears one of the problems is a lack of decisiveness.
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:26 PM
 
16,644 posts, read 14,103,872 times
Reputation: 20598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
So all of you folks who presumably are in Education have no idea how to respond to the OP although it was open to interpretation? No wonder there are troubles.

Oh what, you can all agree that you cannot agree on how to proceed.

Appears one of the problems is a lack of decisiveness.
Requiring someone to clarify a broad and less than clear question is hardly a lack of decisiveness. People who are really interested in solutions always want to know what the actual problem is first, while those who are just interested in pontificating like to keep the waters muddy.
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,771,458 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
What time frame?
What changes were made to the system occurred during this time period? What corrective action has been taken and the result from that?

I am sure this area has been studied and we know what is wrong and how to fix it. Right?
It depends on who you ask. My parents thought they got a great education but they were educated in a time when the norm was to drop out of school, like my dad did. I'm not sure it has declined given that we now educate everyone. What we have failed to do is match pace with several countries that are beating our pants off.
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