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Schools still teach grammar, even if it's not necessarily in a formal course titled "Grammar 101." Kids still need to learn how to write, right? (And writing takes place in many classes, not just in English courses.)
That said, I do believe that the point about foreign language classes teaching grammar is relevant. There's nothing like studying the grammar of another language to help one to better understand one's own language. That's not to suggest that a foreign language teacher should be responsible for teaching students how to communicate in English, but the improved understanding of the ins and outs of grammar is one of those benefits of learning other languages.
Ultimately, however, I think the best way for students to understand grammar isn't through a course dedicated to the topic, but rather through ongoing and frequent exposure to quality writing. Coupled, of course, with churning out lots of writing of their own (ideally in most, if not all, of their classes -- not just English! One of my favorite high school papers -- and one of the few I still remember -- was for a math class.). As they say, practice makes perfect! Obviously that's not always happening, and plenty of kids are not graduating with sufficient writing (and reading) skills, but I think it's a larger issue than just schools not "teaching" grammar.
Schools still teach grammar, even if it's not necessarily in a formal course titled "Grammar 101." Kids still need to learn how to write, right? (And writing takes place in many classes, not just in English courses.)
The Grammar 101 class is called "English", lol ! But But English isn't taught in those classes, literature is.
Your method for learning grammar sounds like the "see and say" method the State of California instituted in the 80's or 90's to replace phonics. It was a resounding failure. Kids need structured lessons that provide tools that help them build skills and understand the structure of a sentence and its component parts. I agree that it's a larger problem than not teaching grammar. There's no instruction in composition and how to organize a paper, either. For that matter, the literature courses don't teach the components of a novel, either. But that's a different topic, perhaps for another thread.
I still teach grammar stand-alone (in addition to embedding it in a cross-curricular way), because my students need it taught that way. But it is not the trend, nor is it how most classroom teachers are currently taught.
I teach fourth grade. I teach grammar in isolation and also teach it during the writing process. However, I know it is not the focus of the lower grade teachers nor the fifth grade teachers (not by their choice). We are "allowed" to give more focus to it because writing is part of the state test for our grade level. I think we should teach it because the kids should know it, not just suddenly care because it's on the state test. If the lower grades were able to give more time to grammar and writing instruction, we would not be starting from scratch every year in our grade level. I am not sure why this is such a difficult concept to the powers that be. Many of our students honestly are unable to tell the different between a fragment and a complete sentence when they come to us, nor can they identify basic parts of speech.
Unfortunately, I can teach grammar all day, model correct usage, etc., but when the kids leave school they see signs at all of the area businesses with incredibly basic errors (most common error: making words plural by adding an apostrophe) and hear incorrect speech at home. I can explain over and over that when you are exiting a car, it is NOT "getting off" or "getting down"... or that if you have a crumpled up piece of paper in your hand and ask if you can "throw it," it sounds like you want to throw the paper across the room rather than throw it away. You cannot "take the baby a bath" when you really mean you are going to GIVE the baby a bath, nor does "carrying the baby" mean you are sitting there just holding it.
This is a crime. Really. The US will lose its competitive edge (what's left of it) globally if nothing is done about this. Who is minding the store? Who is ultimately responsible for this kind of thing? Where is the parental outrage?
Who cares about grammar and education as long as we're strong economically?
The Grammar 101 class is called "English", lol ! But But English isn't taught in those classes, literature is.
Your method for learning grammar sounds like the "see and say" method the State of California instituted in the 80's or 90's to replace phonics. It was a resounding failure. Kids need structured lessons that provide tools that help them build skills and understand the structure of a sentence and its component parts. I agree that it's a larger problem than not teaching grammar. There's no instruction in composition and how to organize a paper, either. For that matter, the literature courses don't teach the components of a novel, either. But that's a different topic, perhaps for another thread.
That hasn't been my experience.When I was in school (during the 80s and 90s) we got hammered over the head with how to compose a paper, and in more recent years as a volunteer I have also helped students with composition and organization. I don't believe that your assumption that schools aren't teaching this is correct. If anything, it seems like in recent years there's been a movement towards forcing kids into overly structured writing styles (an obsession with the five paragraph essay, for example, or paragraphs that are tidy and neat yet lack any style or flair; all that is fine as a starting point, but if our kids are going to be decent writers they need to go beyond writing in neat, test-friendly fill-in-the-blank style formats).
when i was in school in the 50 and 60s, we learned grammar, vocabulary, spelling, reading (speaking english only subjects we had math, geography, science, etc) through elementary school. We would diagram more and more complicated and complex sentences as with the spelling bees. In high school we went into more intense reading, interpretation, poetry, memorization and essays of the classics to analysis and support hypothesis, research papers, etc
we started with phonics spelling and vocabulary and went from there. by the time we got to literature, we were well versed in the building blocks so i tend to prefer that. and we learned our style and flair from the masters.
so i prefer the way we were taught, but maybe each generation does.
I've taught in highschools in the NW where the English teachers stated outright that it was the foreign language teachers' job to teach English grammar. Calilfornia schools are and have always been notorious for not teaching grammar at any level. I have young friends in highschool on the East Coast who don't get grammar and composition instruction. And I've taught at the university level, where the faculty complain about student research papers that are barely comprehensible. Universities now offer remedial writing and grammar classes to address this problem.
This makes no sense to me. Why are our schools churning out students who aren't competent to express themselves correctly in English? Is this a regional issue, or a school district issue?
It seems to be regional, but on the upswing.
Now they are not teaching grammar in grade school even? That is abhorrent, but explains quite a bit . I certainly can see they aren't teaching Social Studies and History in grade school these days.
I wonder what they ARE teaching ??
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