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I agree but I would say irresponsible parents...does the child have a father or is it just mom's job? Anyway. Screw what folks have to say. If that nurse gets fired no one is going to feed her or give her a place to live. What's wrong with parents who know their children have a medical condition and fail to do their due diligence.
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Originally Posted by Zimbochick
1) What an irresponsible mother for not ensuring that her child could get the emergency care he needed. All she had to do was sign the form.
I have a type 1 diabetic daughter. Last year, the school nurse threw out her doctor signed care plan and lost another one (supposedly) but I caught her in a lie about it. The nurse was so incompetant she didn't even know how to count carbs for the school lunches-all of that information is available online. My daughter's doctor got so angry with the nurse that he sent her a very candid letter and permitted my daughter (she's a teen and has lived with this for years) to handle her own care without the inept nurse. I am just amazed that anyone could let a kid almost die on the floor without caling 911 and giving the inhaler.
Oh please! Like you've never make an innocent mistake before? I know I have filled out forms completely only come to find out I forgot to sign them (in fact, I did that with my tax forms last year! ), and as soon as the party noticed the lack of signature, it was corrected. Accident does NOT equal irresponsible.
I have a child with a life-threatening condition. I follow-up with the school nurse that she has everything in order for my child before the start of the school year. It sounds like we are lucky in that our school nurse is great, but I feel the responsibility lies with me to ensure that everything is in order.
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Originally Posted by Cav Scout wife
She should lose it for not doing her job and helping a child that needed help. Honestly, I would rather be fired for doing the right thing, than standing back and doing nothing, due to "policy". I thought all good people thought like that, guess I was wrong.
Sorry, but you cannot say what you would do unless you are a nurse. I am a pediatric ICU nurse, and I have many friends who have lost their licenses, I know of one who was charged with either manslaughter or accidental death (can't remember which) for giving a non-prescribed drug (it was the correct drug for the emergency situation). I have done it in an emergency, and would probably do it again, but I am not going to sit back and judge someone who chooses not to put their entire family situation in jeopardy.
Now, as for her not calling 911, that is an entirely different situation, and is absolutely unacceptable.
One of the things I have learned from these stories is that school may be one of the most dangerous places my daughter goes. As a parent, I can only trust her going out of my eyesight if I believe in the good will of other adults. In most cases, it seems other adults must be worried about protecting children. I have yet to read a story about a child being denied an inhaler or other necessary care by a dance teacher or coach or friend's parent. When I leave my daughter at activities, I have some confidence the other adults in charge will do what it takes to help save my daughter if the worse happens. That is apparently not the case at school.
With this story and the other recent story of the Virginia girl dying, I see at schools that many nurses apparently are more concerned about lawsuits and whether or not the parent did their homework correctly than the life of a child. I just don't see this problem anywhere else. Once in the emergency room where I had taken my daughter for breathing difficulty, the medical staff there did not even tell me what they were doing let alone get my approval to give my daughter albuterol etc. They were too focused on saving my child's life. I would have expected the same from a school nurse.
There are always people who harp on the parents in such scenarios, but it is not always as easy as it sounds to keep everything straight. My daughter has had allergies since birth. Her life-saving medicines have not changed in all the years she has been in school. Yet, I do have to get the same forms at least once if not multiple times a year (summer camps often have their own forms). I also have to deal with whatever curve balls the doctors or nurses throw my way--like the time the doctor made the order expire in December (calendar year rather than school year). If I had not noticed that and my daughter had a problem in January, I guess she may have been out of luck at school.
Then there are all the expiration dates on the medicine. A nurse here pointed out that school nurses also are not allowed to give expired medicines. Epipen shots frequently expire. They, along with other medicines, still work for some time after the expiration. However, if I don't keep track carefully and one expires on March 31, and my daughter has a problem on April 1--again I may be out of luck. Life gets busy and sometimes mistakes happen. I cannot imagine my daughter dying because one of her six to eight medical forms at school was missing something or one of her medicines had recently expired. Only at school would this be a problem. It is frightening.
One of the things I have learned from these stories is that school may be one of the most dangerous places my daughter goes. As a parent, I can only trust her going out of my eyesight if I believe in the good will of other adults. In most cases, it seems other adults must be worried about protecting children. I have yet to read a story about a child being denied an inhaler or other necessary care by a dance teacher or coach or friend's parent. When I leave my daughter at activities, I have some confidence the other adults in charge will do what it takes to help save my daughter if the worse happens. That is apparently not the case at school.
With this story and the other recent story of the Virginia girl dying, I see at schools that many nurses apparently are more concerned about lawsuits and whether or not the parent did their homework correctly than the life of a child. I just don't see this problem anywhere else. Once in the emergency room where I had taken my daughter for breathing difficulty, the medical staff there did not even tell me what they were doing let alone get my approval to give my daughter albuterol etc. They were too focused on saving my child's life. I would have expected the same from a school nurse.
There are always people who harp on the parents in such scenarios, but it is not always as easy as it sounds to keep everything straight. My daughter has had allergies since birth. Her life-saving medicines have not changed in all the years she has been in school. Yet, I do have to get the same forms at least once if not multiple times a year (summer camps often have their own forms). I also have to deal with whatever curve balls the doctors or nurses throw my way--like the time the doctor made the order expire in December (calendar year rather than school year). If I had not noticed that and my daughter had a problem in January, I guess she may have been out of luck at school.
Then there are all the expiration dates on the medicine. A nurse here pointed out that school nurses also are not allowed to give expired medicines. Epipen shots frequently expire. They, along with other medicines, still work for some time after the expiration. However, if I don't keep track carefully and one expires on March 31, and my daughter has a problem on April 1--again I may be out of luck. Life gets busy and sometimes mistakes happen. I cannot imagine my daughter dying because one of her six to eight medical forms at school was missing something or one of her medicines had recently expired. Only at school would this be a problem. It is frightening.
What is your suggestion to improve this bureaucratic nightmare?
The difference between school and other activities is a legal one. The dance teacher and sport coach are covered by Good Samaritan Laws, the school nurse is not. Not only would she lose her license, but she could be charged criminally and civilly.
It's all well and good to say what a person would do when they are likely never going to have to make that decision.
I DO NOT condone how this nurse handled this situation, but people need to understand the bigger picture.
One of the things many people really don't understand is that school nurses are not in the school to provide medical treatment. Generally speaking, school nurses are in public schools to carry out programs like vision screening, immunization, scoliosis screening, and head lice inspection. Part of the job is a sort of social work. The school nurse may make home visits when a referral is provided by a school teacher or the Principal. Home visits generally are requested because of suspicions of neglect or even abuse that maybe going on. When my wife was a school nurse, one of the things she sometimes had to do was to speak to the gas company or electric company about turning on services in a home where parents couldn't pay the bill and, as a result, kids were coming to school without being able to bath.
Standard protocol in most schools is that in the event of a medical emergency the school nurse is to call an ambulance. Although, even this gets dicey. Nurses and school administration have been yelled at by parents for calling an ambulance before the parents were called first. Honestly, if someone's life was in jeopardy, the last damn thing I'd worry about is calling parents first. Although, you'd be surprised about how many parents even in a situation that threatened the life of their child would ***** about having to pay a bill for the ambulance.
I understand where this nurse is coming from. In an emergency, I'd almost certainly throw the rules aside and do what I thought I had to do. In other words, I'd have gotten the inhaler. However, it can be a very dicey situation. People need more education about what the role of the school nurse is. They need to be more responsible for their child's own medical needs. Forty years ago, there weren't so many rules that govern everyone's conduct. Today, its a fact of life and its a given that some outcomes will be less than optimal because of them. I'm glad this poor child survived.
One of the things many people really don't understand is that school nurses are not in the school to provide medicaltreatment.Generally speaking, school nurses are in publicschools to carry out programs like vision screening, immunization, scoliosis screening, and head lice inspection. Part of the job is a sort of social work. The school nurse may make home visits when a referral is provided by a school teacher or the Principal. Home visits generally are requested because of suspicions of neglect or even abuse that maybe going on. When my wife was a school nurse, one of the things she sometimes had to do was to speak to the gas company or electric company about turning on services in a home where parents couldn't pay the bill and, as a result, kids were coming to school without being able to bath.
Standard protocol in most schools is that in the event of a medical emergency the school nurse is to call an ambulance. Although, even this gets dicey. Nurses and school administration have been yelled at by parents for calling an ambulance before the parents were called first. Honestly, if someone's life was in jeopardy, the last damn thing I'd worry about is calling parents first. Although, you'd be surprised about how many parents even in a situation that threatened the life of their child would ***** about having to pay a bill for the ambulance.
I understand where this nurse is coming from. In an emergency, I'd almost certainly throw the rules aside and do what I thought I had to do. In other words, I'd have gotten the inhaler. However, it can be a very dicey situation. People need more education about what the role of the school nurse is. They need to be more responsible for their child's own medical needs. Forty years ago, there weren't so many rules that govern everyone's conduct. Today, its a fact of life and its a given that some outcomes will be less than optimal because of them. I'm glad this poor child survived.
I am aware of several times in my school where parents were VERY ANGRY that an ambulance was called for their child in an emergency situation (and the parents could not be reached first). This happened with different parents not just one.
I am aware of several times in my school where parents were VERY ANGRY that an ambulance was called for their child in an emergency situation (and the parents could not be reached first). This happened with different parents not just one.
Yes, I have heard of this too.
Also worth noting that most school districts allow children to carry their own Epi-pen, insulin, or inhalers if they have the correct authorization to do so.
As a teacher of medically fragile children in SPED, I knew all the meds my kids were on...and while it was "policy" that only the nurse did certain procedures....I made sure me and my paras were also trained. I had two Epi pens in my desk...along with glucose for diabetics.
Many school nurses get used to barely working. They are usually lazy.
I'm not sure what is the common amount of hours for most school nurses. In my district one nurse was responsible for four elementary schools, one middle school and one high school in addition to working in the city health department. She spent one and a half to two hours twice per week in our elementary school.
The school nurse organized & supervised events such as vision screenings but they were almost totally handled by parent volunteers.
Our "health room" was only staffed the three to four hours per week that the nurse was present any other health needs or emergencies were handled by the school secretary. The only exception was that chronic health needs (such as a diabetic child) were assigned to a teacher's aide or other staff member to monitor.
Last edited by germaine2626; 05-25-2012 at 12:29 PM..
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), and as soon as the party noticed the lack of signature, it was corrected. Accident does NOT equal irresponsible.
