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Old 04-18-2019, 04:26 PM
 
15,590 posts, read 15,677,065 times
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Interestingly debatable.

Is Education a Fundamental Right?
The history of an obscure Supreme Court ruling sheds light on the ongoing debate over schooling and immigration.

Just because the courts have recognized students' First Amendment rights, it doesn’t follow that students have other rights. Do students have Fourth Amendment protections against “unreasonable searches and seizures”? Do they have Fifth Amendment protections against self-incrimination? Do they have Eighth Amendment protections against “cruel and unusual punishment”?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...damental-right
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,826 posts, read 24,335,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
Interestingly debatable.

Is Education a Fundamental Right?
The history of an obscure Supreme Court ruling sheds light on the ongoing debate over schooling and immigration.

Just because the courts have recognized students' First Amendment rights, it doesn’t follow that students have other rights. Do students have Fourth Amendment protections against “unreasonable searches and seizures”? Do they have Fifth Amendment protections against self-incrimination? Do they have Eighth Amendment protections against “cruel and unusual punishment”?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...damental-right
Education is often considered to be a property right.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:41 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Education is often considered to be a property right.

How do you guarantee an unmeasurable right? Who decides what education is, and what is the minimum?


I consider double-entry accounting more important than history but how many get that in their K-12 education?
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:35 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,050,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
Interestingly debatable.

Is Education a Fundamental Right?
The history of an obscure Supreme Court ruling sheds light on the ongoing debate over schooling and immigration.

Just because the courts have recognized students' First Amendment rights, it doesn’t follow that students have other rights. Do students have Fourth Amendment protections against “unreasonable searches and seizures”? Do they have Fifth Amendment protections against self-incrimination? Do they have Eighth Amendment protections against “cruel and unusual punishment”?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...damental-right
When I was in school, they made it very clear that constitutional rights do not apply to us. Not even the First Amendment. Not sure if that was legally true, or if it was just a way to keep us in line.


My AP US History teacher did mention the Tinker vs Des Moines case, but made it clear that he strongly disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision, and that if a similar case were to go before the Supreme Court today (today meaning 1996, when I had that teacher), the Court would almost certainly decide against the students.


As for the 5th Amendment: I was once in a situation where I had to either write a letter of apology to a teacher for something that I did not do, or get a 5 day suspension for insubordination. I wrote the letter of apology. In retrospect, that was very likely so that they would have a written confession on my record. I honestly do not know how I should have handled that situation. I've posted about it in the past.


As for the 4th Amendment: it never happened to me, but there were plenty of cases where teachers would take away from students items that were not allowed in school (or even just not allowed in their class) but otherwise legal with no compensation and no due process.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:41 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,404 posts, read 60,592,880 times
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There's a lot of case law about student rights, one of which was already mentioned.

Some others:

https://www.uscourts.gov/about-feder...-v-tlo-podcast

https://www3.nd.edu/~rbarger/www7/rights.html

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...out-education/
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,826 posts, read 24,335,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
How do you guarantee an unmeasurable right? Who decides what education is, and what is the minimum?


I consider double-entry accounting more important than history but how many get that in their K-12 education?
The legislatures of the states decide that all the time. Sometimes it ends up in court.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,712 posts, read 6,764,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
I consider double-entry accounting more important than history but how many get that in their K-12 education?
Yes, most Americans have become unable to distinguish education from job training.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:40 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Yes, most Americans have become unable to distinguish education from job training.

Do bankers and the real estate industry want everyone to know accounting? I wonder how desperately most Americans would need jobs if accouning had been mandatory since 1960.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJXl6pk0Z4


Sylvia Porter was writing about that in the 1980s. History in school is mostly propaganda.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,712 posts, read 6,764,629 times
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You're not talking about accounting, which is the mechanical exercise of money tracking. You're talking about consumer economics, which along with any kind of real critical thinking has been poorly taught if at all for several decades.

Teaching consumer economics is contrary to the practice of American business, therefore we've concentrated on getting people into the highest-paying jobs possible, that they might consume their full share, gladly and without a second thought about the issues.

Thus... "education" has become almost entirely job training, with as little time as possible wasted on that history, civics and literature stuff. Gets in the way of consuming.
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:27 PM
 
19,798 posts, read 18,093,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You're not talking about accounting, which is the mechanical exercise of money tracking. You're talking about consumer economics, which along with any kind of real critical thinking has been poorly taught if at all for several decades.

Teaching consumer economics is contrary to the practice of American business, therefore we've concentrated on getting people into the highest-paying jobs possible, that they might consume their full share, gladly and without a second thought about the issues.

Thus... "education" has become almost entirely job training, with as little time as possible wasted on that history, civics and literature stuff. Gets in the way of consuming.

You are smart person with a dysfunctional worldview. It amazes me how common this is.

You might want to rollback the cynicism dial a touch. The fact is life in The US offers a spectacular array of educational pathways. Simply put people should stop crying and try a little.
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