Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-31-2019, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,712 posts, read 6,753,680 times
Reputation: 13503

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I believe many scholarships are biased in favor of girls. The criteria being judged play to stereotypical girl strengths.
I'd agree; the whole scholarship path is paved for 'perfect students,' which girls excel at while most of their monkey symbiotes are still learning to focus.

I don't necessarily agree or like the focus on sports as a main path for boys, but it does play into their (mental) gender strengths.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-31-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,193 posts, read 107,809,412 times
Reputation: 116092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I'd agree; the whole scholarship path is paved for 'perfect students,' which girls excel at while most of their monkey symbiotes are still learning to focus.

I don't necessarily agree or like the focus on sports as a main path for boys, but it does play into their (mental) gender strengths.
I'm not buying this. The picture is way more complex than: boys = sports, girls = verbal/writing skills. For one thing, there are plenty of boys out there, who have no interest in sports. For another, there are schools out there, that teach boys advanced writing skills in high school. They teach what used to be considered "college-level" writing, but now that colleges offer remedial highschool-level writing courses, "college-level" has sunk to the level of HS, so those "college-prep" schools are actually teaching adult, professional writing skills. And the boys learn it.

I've heard about these courses from cousins who went to private schools, and were taught to write in a variety of styles. Of course, they also were taught advanced grammar, in addition to expository writing, persuasive writing, and so forth. Few schools offer this kind of thing now. But it's not true that boys can't do it, their brains aren't mature enough, or their attention span isn't developed enough, or whatever. Maybe it's partly about teacher expectations for boys being lower? Schools being dumbed down? If so, how do the girls manage to learn writing skills?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,712 posts, read 6,753,680 times
Reputation: 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I'm not buying this. The picture is way more complex than: boys = sports, girls = verbal/writing skills.
Of course it is, and I didn't mean to imply anything that simplistic.

But boys and girls mature on different tracks, especially intellectually, and education being "one size fits all" long before it became "there is only one because we're so enlightened," it never really addresses these different curves. You either fit the standard curve well enough, or be wealthy/lucky enough to have a customized curve, or you finish high school with limits you shouldn't have.

A rough datum is how women tend to do poorly in STEM fields... unless they were lucky enough to be engaged at the slightly later age than boys, in which case they often excel. Women didn't enter/succeed in engineering fields because education didn't match their slightly later aptitude for such things. We haven't gotten a lot better at it, just more... aware that we have to focus on the girls and not exclude them from robotics groups and such. Half a fix at best. That boys aren't great expressive writers until somewhat past high school age is another example.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 02:43 PM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,033,724 times
Reputation: 34894
I don't think it's writing skills so much as content. Boys tend to write about concrete things or topics. Girls tend to be more expository in their writing. More creative. Neither is more skilled than the other but the girl "style" plays better with the typical judging criteria. If you asked for a 500 word essay on what color is the sky, the boy will either write "blue" and wonder what else to say or do an essay on Rayleigh scattering, whereas the girl will describe the "colors of the wind" and the feelings induced.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 02:53 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
9,512 posts, read 6,095,465 times
Reputation: 28836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
The big question is, what can schools do differently to help boys?
Want to.

Seriously; do I have to be the resident conspiracy theorist once again? Too bad it’s not a theory.

State DOE’s are simply responding to a Kissinger-era federal mandate to promote females to higher education. To be clear; the words; “Do not promote males” were not spoken (unless you work for Google). It’s just not possible to artificially promote one sex without unintentionally mitigating the other.

I say this as a mother of twin girls who just graduated & received 5 awards between them on senior recognition night. And I actively steered them right into their Robotics team & STEM extracurricular activities for this very reason.

I’m too poor to not take advantage of every little PC sentiment available for them, despite that I despise the genesis of it (population control, again; Kissinger era). I’m the mother of seven boys as well, who struggle in this society that IS geared against them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Fairfield, CT
6,981 posts, read 10,944,403 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
The big question is, what can schools do differently to help boys?
To start with, there'd have to be an interest in helping boys. All I ever hear is how we need to do more for girls and the assumption seems to be that boys have all the advantages. It has become very mean-spirited and anti-male, with boys receiving many subliminal and even explicit messages that they are bad.

There is little concern that many boys are at risk because of the decline of family structure and father absence. We treat fathers as dispensible and fail to realize (mainly for political reasons) that boys in particular really suffer without an involved father, and our refusal to recognize that some boys need help is also rooted in a political agenda.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Fairfield, CT
6,981 posts, read 10,944,403 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Want to.

Seriously; do I have to be the resident conspiracy theorist once again? Too bad it’s not a theory.

State DOE’s are simply responding to a Kissinger-era federal mandate to promote females to higher education. To be clear; the words; “Do not promote males” were not spoken (unless you work for Google). It’s just not possible to artificially promote one sex without unintentionally mitigating the other.

I say this as a mother of twin girls who just graduated & received 5 awards between them on senior recognition night. And I actively steered them right into their Robotics team & STEM extracurricular activities for this very reason.

I’m too poor to not take advantage of every little PC sentiment available for them, despite that I despise the genesis of it (population control, again; Kissinger era). I’m the mother of seven boys as well, who struggle in this society that IS geared against them.
You are completely correct.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 03:35 PM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,513,664 times
Reputation: 8103
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I don't think it's writing skills so much as content. Boys tend to write about concrete things or topics. Girls tend to be more expository in their writing. More creative. Neither is more skilled than the other but the girl "style" plays better with the typical judging criteria. If you asked for a 500 word essay on what color is the sky, the boy will either write "blue" and wonder what else to say or do an essay on Rayleigh scattering, whereas the girl will describe the "colors of the wind" and the feelings induced.
I really disagree with this. Most fantasy books were written by guys. RR Martin, Robert Jordan, R.A. Salvatore, etc. My sons are both good writers, totally into tech stuff and not a bit interested in sports. Their friends share similar interests. My husband is an engineer and an excellent writer, better than me because he is precise in his language, and will over-describe something to make sure he gets his point across.

And back to the OP - For years and years, girls were taught that it's better to be pretty than smart. Thank goodness my generation started reversing that trend. I think boys just mature later and by the time they realize the importance of grades, it's too late to catch up. Just a theory.
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,557 posts, read 2,216,835 times
Reputation: 3916
I think it all works out in the end. A boy who gets poor grades and generally isn't considered college material might turn out to be a gifted mechanic, or (where I'm from) take over the family farm or ranch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 05:28 PM
 
6,503 posts, read 3,432,012 times
Reputation: 7903
Most of my guy classmates immediately went to work for their parents' companies (or during summers, for the college-bound ones), or "knew someone who had a good job, and was waiting for them to turn 18 so they could get hired". They KNEW what they wanted to do for work. For a living. Not so good at sitting down for 7+ hours and reading books, to be send home to do the same for a few more hours.

The girl classmates simply did not take issue with the type of work that was being asked of them. It was just done. They enjoyed being "by the book" and would be quick to remind someone of an assignment's requirements if someone went astray from a project outline.

The guys I knew wanted to love what they did, or at least be very proud of what they did (trades work, engineers, a handful of doctors). The girls seemed to sit well with the concept of delayed gratification a little better, and that's why you see such a high % with master's degrees.

This is my observation from a public high school of 1400 in rural NC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top