May be relocating to El Paso, lots of questions... (West: house, schools)
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Those are some great post. Thanks Mal, for clearing up that your from the midwest. I agree Kids here don't have to bundle up to go outside very often here. I guess I should of said there are not enough cheap, or free things to do, since El Paso is a poor city. When I was a kid we did stuff.. that was cheap or free.. but now as we discussed in the THINGS HAVE CHANGED thread, you really cant do them any more.
I am glad to see you addressing the Gang problem too. Many people don't see it.
I disagree on the jobs thing here.. Yeah I guess if I really had to or wanted to I could work at Circle K at minimum wage. But how does one survive on that?
Yes Peggy that is true most kids want to leave the place they were born. But there was a El Paso Time article on it ( I believe some one posted here ) that says its a bigger problem in El Paso than other places. Talking about how we need to bring better higher paying jobs to the region to keep El Paso youth in the city.
EnjoyEP, that last post with the data from Caldwell bankers was good stuff. I am glad to see some facts along with your argument for El Paso. I will also say that your right on the Food! Man its good here. I agree the culture thing is one thing that can be viewed as a downer, or a positive aspect of the city. One thing I want to clear up again, is the Mountain thing you posted. The Franklin's separate the WEST from the NORTH EAST! The East side is connected via I-10 and the pass. So please give the N.E. its due, after all it is part of the city no matter how you all want to act like it is not.
I also like how you all just ignored and skipped right past my US State Department facts. Kinda hard to argue over what they have to say huh.
Those are some great post. Thanks Mal, for clearing up that your from the midwest. I agree Kids here don't have to bundle up to go outside very often here. I guess I should of said there are not enough cheap, or free things to do, since El Paso is a poor city. When I was a kid we did stuff.. that was cheap or free.. but now as we discussed in the THINGS HAVE CHANGED thread, you really cant do them any more.
I am glad to see you addressing the Gang problem too. Many people don't see it.
Yes -- the THINGS HAVE CHANGED thread probably is true just about anywhere. Or maybe parents in the past were just different --- but I know talking with family members living in other states that they also don't let their kids roam free like was common in the past -- going hours without actually knowing exactly where the kids were.
People failing to see the gang problem is why it's going to get worse. For some reason even the death of young kids like the one at Del Valle are quickly swept under the rug and forgotten. The sad thing is -- it's not very shocking here -- that a kid can go off to school one morning and never return home because some gang killed him. And as far as I know, no one was arrested in that case.
To think that's the environment kids face here today -- they actually know people who have been injured and even killed. Yet -- a child killed in his own high school here is apparently no big deal -- it was news for a day or two and that was it.
I disagree on the jobs thing here.. Yeah I guess if I really had to or wanted to I could work at Circle K at minimum wage. But how does one survive on that?
Understood, Muhnay, and by all means, I am not in disagreement. It is hard to say to - oh, let's say an accountant or a police officer (white collar or skilled professionals...just using those two as an example) - if for whatever reason there is a dearth of jobs in their field and thus finding work is tough, "hey, suck it up and go work at McDonalds"...and in that light, I thoroughly agree with you.
I think you'd agree with me that in no way do I give El Paso a "pass" when it comes to its job market. It is a serious, significantly important area that EP needs to continually address. Fortunately, it appears that some progress has been made and is on the upswing, however, we'd surely both agree that much more work needs to be done.
I guess more what I am alluding to - and I know you probably see this all the time in EP - is guys who dropped out of HS, show no motivation or will to ever work for themselves, get fired from their jobs after a week, etc., because they can't stay sober/drug-free/on time to work, etc. Then, they resort to sitting on their duffs and having the rest of us pay for them. THOSE are the folks that draw my criticism, and those are the folks that sadly contribute to unemployment rates too. And in some cities - El Paso and Milwaukee are two notable ones for me - this is kind of a more accepted "culture" for many than it is in other areas.
But indeed your point is well taken...there are two very distinct and separate kinds of unemployment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhnay
EnjoyEP, that last post with the data from Caldwell bankers was good stuff. I am glad to see some facts along with your argument for El Paso.
The Coldwell Banker tool is really a great one. I should've posted this link - take a look at it, it is really neat, you can compare a standard home price in one market to three others. It is really helpful:
Now, having said this, of course this is still a generality. They are working on averages. A house on the West Side of El Paso that goes for $180K probably can be found on the East Side for $130K. This is obviously true for all cities. So this is a good, general ballpark perspective, but isn't necessarily the be all end all.
Through another realty company, I get daily email updates on houses available in El Paso in my criteria for price, BRs, BAs, etc., that is a very helpful tool, too, and it shows what houses are really going for on a week-to-week and daily basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhnay
I will also say that your right on the Food! Man its good here. I agree the culture thing is one thing that can be viewed as a downer, or a positive aspect of the city.
Heck man, we do agree on a few things. I love the food so much. I don't mind washing it down with a Mexican beer (if not driving) either!! I know you are a tamale person and I am big time. My wife's grandma makes 'em from scratch and we have a huge bag up here in WI in our freezer which is great. I especially like 'em around Christmastime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhnay
One thing I want to clear up again, is the Mountain thing you posted. The Franklin's separate the WEST from the NORTH EAST! The East side is connected via I-10 and the pass. So please give the N.E. its due, after all it is part of the city no matter how you all want to act like it is not.
OK, fair enough Muhnay...please know, I wasn't trying to slight NE EP!!!
I guess my perspective is, that while I spend quite a bit of time getting around town, that overall, I usually stay on the East Side. So when I am coming in from the West on I-10, I kind of curl around the mountain.
But this one I will not argue for sure and will say that I defer to you here - I am sure you are right on this one! I have admitted to 6 FOOT 3 that probably the least amount of time I have spent in EP in any one section is the NE...not consciously, but I just haven't really had many chances to get over there. I will indeed have to take more time there the next time I am there to explore it, check it out. One of the churches I would be going to there is in the Hondo Pass area which I believe is near 54 in the NE side, so I would definitely like to see more around it (and Fort Bliss, although I have been lost a few times driving around Ft. B already, so it isn't like I have NEVER been in NE EP! ). Thanks for the correction on that with the mountains.
I moved here a year ago. Be aware that housing costs are not that cheap on the West side (where I live) especially if you add in the outrageous property taxes, and I mean criminal taxes. Mine were almost $12,000 last year. Yes. Schools, I sent my daughters to private they had a HARD time being anglo and not speaking Spanish. Horrible time, I took them out. The public schools on the west side are supposed to be good, but be aware that they are very overcrowded.
It is pretty, the weather is nice. I wouldn't do it again, though.
Understood, Muhnay, and by all means, I am not in disagreement. It is hard to say to - oh, let's say an accountant or a police officer (white collar or skilled professionals...just using those two as an example) - if for whatever reason there is a dearth of jobs in their field and thus finding work is tough, "hey, suck it up and go work at McDonalds"...and in that light, I thoroughly agree with you.
You know what.. I applied at McDonalds. I was told I did not speak Spanish and was over qualified. So don't think just suck it up and flip burgers. El Paso has this discriminatory practice... you must speak Spanish to work here. Its a simple but very true fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
I think you'd agree with me that in no way do I give El Paso a "pass" when it comes to its job market. It is a serious, significantly important area that EP needs to continually address. Fortunately, it appears that some progress has been made and is on the upswing, however, we'd surely both agree that much more work needs to be done.
Yes, I will agree more jobs are moving in to the El Paso market, in the form of Bilingual call centers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
I guess more what I am alluding to - and I know you probably see this all the time in EP - is guys who dropped out of HS, show no motivation or will to ever work for themselves, get fired from their jobs after a week, etc., because they can't stay sober/drug-free/on time to work, etc. Then, they resort to sitting on their duffs and having the rest of us pay for them. THOSE are the folks that draw my criticism, and those are the folks that sadly contribute to unemployment rates too. And in some cities - El Paso and Milwaukee are two notable ones for me - this is kind of a more accepted "culture" for many than it is in other areas.
I dropped out of High School, got married and joined the Army. I have owned two businesses here. Sold my game store to move out of state.. its closed now, the new owner did not know what hard work that really is. Had a Internet cafe on the East side, called 1337 c@fe. It was a good business, but the El Paso people could not afford what I needed to charge to keep a float. Overhead for that type of business is huge. =)
El Paso is also great at keeping people on Food Stamps and other support. Other states have better programs to get people working at living wage jobs, and free training to help people, so they can get them off public assistance. Idaho had one of the best I have seen. The job centers there were state of the art.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
But indeed your point is well taken...there are two very distinct and separate kinds of unemployment.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
The Coldwell Banker tool is really a great one. I should've posted this link - take a look at it, it is really neat, you can compare a standard home price in one market to three others. It is really helpful:
Now, having said this, of course this is still a generality. They are working on averages. A house on the West Side of El Paso that goes for $180K probably can be found on the East Side for $130K. This is obviously true for all cities. So this is a good, general ballpark perspective, but isn't necessarily the be all end all.
Through another realty company, I get daily email updates on houses available in El Paso in my criteria for price, BRs, BAs, etc., that is a very helpful tool, too, and it shows what houses are really going for on a week-to-week and daily basis.
First thanks for the link. Let me try to explain the El Paso Housing market. When you have people who make less than 30K a year on average, and then build houses in a city that range from 190K to 250K for a starter home, your out pricing your market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
Heck man, we do agree on a few things. I love the food so much. I don't mind washing it down with a Mexican beer (if not driving) either!! I know you are a tamale person and I am big time. My wife's grandma makes 'em from scratch and we have a huge bag up here in WI in our freezer which is great. I especially like 'em around Christmas time.
I love Mexican food.. I gave up my Gull bladder for it. =) Oh yeah as you may not know, My Mother and I owned a bar in N.E. El Paso called the Eagles Nest. Washing down some Mexican food with an ice cold Corona. Its still open to this day, we sold it after a few problems with a partner my mother rook on, and I was out of state. Bars do rather well here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
OK, fair enough Muhnay...please know, I wasn't trying to slight NE EP!!!
I guess my perspective is, that while I spend quite a bit of time getting around town, that overall, I usually stay on the East Side. So when I am coming in from the West on I-10, I kind of curl around the mountain.
No Slight taken.. just like to make that fact clear. =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
But this one I will not argue for sure and will say that I defer to you here - I am sure you are right on this one! I have admitted to 6 FOOT 3 that probably the least amount of time I have spent in EP in any one section is the NE...not consciously, but I just haven't really had many chances to get over there. I will indeed have to take more time there the next time I am there to explore it, check it out. One of the churches I would be going to there is in the Hondo Pass area which I believe is near 54 in the NE side, so I would definitely like to see more around it (and Fort Bliss, although I have been lost a few times driving around Ft. B already, so it isn't like I have NEVER been in NE EP! ). Thanks for the correction on that with the mountains.
North East El Paso is changing thats for sure. Lots of new construction. Wait till you take the Loop again and see the new off ramp to Biggs. And all the new stuff out there. I hope all this conversation helps this person and his family make a good informed decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alikat1205
I moved here a year ago. Be aware that housing costs are not that cheap on the West side (where I live) especially if you add in the outrageous property taxes, and I mean criminal taxes. Mine were almost $12,000 last year. Yes. Schools, I sent my daughters to private they had a HARD time being anglo and not speaking Spanish. Horrible time, I took them out. The public schools on the west side are supposed to be good, but be aware that they are very overcrowded.
It is pretty, the weather is nice. I wouldn't do it again, though.
I hear this opinion all the time from Military personnel. You said a lot in your small post. Something most people who Love El Paso don't see, or want to address. El Paso needs to grow up and address many of the problems it has.. ignoring them wont make them go away. I really think this Must Speak Spanish thing is a discriminatory act, and they should be able to be sued over it.
I have worked in this community for 35 years and English was the language I spoke. While some customers did not speak fluent English, I pressed the issue of speaking the language of this country. At times, I would speak Spanish when needed.
If you speak English, they will speak English. If the employers demand bilingual capabilities that means some customers may come in not having any English knowledge. If people are being denied jobs because of that, it must be addressed.
English is the langauge of this country. Stand your ground.
But since we service many who come here not knowing the language, we should encourge both but it should be an option. Commerce is a big part of our economy. Trade even more. Medicine is growing fast. These three will account for 80% of the economy. We need to move forward.
If it means anything, I was offered a transfer here and turned it down after much thought and exploration. I am from Philly. The draw was that I could afford a great house at my engineer salary and I would be experiencing a different culture. Plus any foreign work experience looks great on a resume. I love hiking in the mountains and the landscape really appealed to me.
But, I decided against it for the following reasons:
1) Driving in Juarez is NOT safe. I did it for an entire month to try it out.
2) border traffic is bad unless you have the special pass. Plan on spending 1/2 hr at the bridge at minimum, or more depending on which bridge
3) traditional americans who don't speak spanish well are not accepted by the hispanic majority. Sorry but it's true. Mexican girls would flock to me on the other side of the border, but when I was back in the US side, they wanted nothing to do with me. This is the case in many southwest cities, not just ELP. The non spanish speakers struggle to find mid level jobs.
4) the influx of illegal aliens creates a situation in which higher income taxpayers shoulder a large burden to pay for the gaps in health care, crime, etc.
hope this helps!
PS I love visiting ELP but living there was not for me.
If I would live in Las Cruces how far would it be to the Santa Teresa exit?
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