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I see you've made three posts in this thread. Two attacking the poster instead of the argument, and one off topic. Do you have anything of substance to contribute?
As even Clinton said'its te econom stupis. Its really no different than what they sadi about reagan during Carter years ;really.Democrats as always are tax and spend just the same as Euro zone has been for deacdes except german whop made cuts and reforms in the 90's. Baascailly only democrats who are dependent want to continue to becoming Greece.People i larger nmbers are realising that the wealth sharing since the mid 60's as brought about a uncomopetitive popualtion whch is creatig a larger and larger bottom base.To democrats elected officals this just emans locked up votes to keep the elite the elite.
I am sorry to put it so bluntly, you have no idea of what you write in your posts -- and this last post takes the cake. FDR a corporatist? FDR railed against big business. Perhaps you should read some of his speeches, like this one:
Quote:
And so it was to win freedom from the tyranny of political autocracy that the American Revolution was fought. That victory gave the business of governing into the hands of the average man, who won the right with his neighbors to make and order his own destiny through his own government. Political tyranny was wiped out at Philadelphia on July 4, 1776.
Since that struggle, however, man's inventive genius released new forces in our land which reordered the lives of our people. The age of machinery, of railroads; of steam and electricity; the telegraph and the radio; mass production, mass distribution - all of these combined to bring forward a new civilization and with it a new problem for those who sought to remain free.
For out of this modern civilization economic royalists carved new dynasties. New kingdoms were built upon concentration of control over material things. Through new uses of corporations, banks and securities, new machinery of industry and agriculture, of labor and capital - all undreamed of by the Fathers - the whole structure of modern life was impressed into this royal service.
There was no place among this royalty for our many thousands of small-businessmen and merchants who sought to make a worthy use of the American system of initiative and profit. They were no more free than the worker or the farmer. Even honest and progressive-minded men of wealth, aware of their obligation to their generation, could never know just where they fitted into this dynastic scheme of things.
It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction. In its service new mercenaries sought to regiment the people, their labor, and their property. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man.
...
These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power. In vain they seek to hide behind the flag and the Constitution. In their blindness they forget what the flag and the Constitution stand for. Now, as always, they stand for democracy, not tyranny; for freedom, not subjection; and against a dictatorship by mob rule and the over-privileged alike.
and this one:
Quote:
For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up.
We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace: business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.
They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.
Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me – and I welcome their hatred.
I am sorry to put it so bluntly, you have no idea of what you write in your posts -- and this last post takes the cake. FDR a corporatist? FDR railed against big business. Perhaps you should read some of his speeches, like this one:
When Franklin D. Roosevelt became President of the United States in March 1933, he expressly adopted a variety of measures to see which would work, including several which their proponents felt would be inconsistent with each other. One of these programs was the National Recovery Administration (NRA), which, with its codes and industry organizations, was said by some critics to have a certain resemblance, as an economic institution, to Mussolini's corporatism. This comparison was made at the time, and it was not always a critical one; even Winston Churchill had praised Benito Mussolini. Churchill controversially claimed that the fascism of Mussolini had "rendered a service to the whole world," showing, as it had, "a way to combat subversive forces" — that is, he considered the regime to be a bulwark against the perceived threat of communist revolution. At one point, Churchill went as far as to call Mussolini the "Roman genius ... the greatest lawgiver among men."[7] FDR's personal letters reveal that he was impressed by what Mussolini was doing and said that he kept in close touch with that "admirable gentleman."[8] Mussolini himself praised the New Deal as following his own corporate state, as quoted in a July 1933 article in the New York Times, "Your plan for coordination of industry follows precisely our lines of cooperation."
American Lawrence Dennis, in his 1936 book, The coming American fascism: The crisis of capitalism, wrote that "history and present day experience are full of demonstrations that the more there is of what is commonly called laissez-faire, economic freedom, democracy or parliamentary government, the more economic maladjustments there will be, and the more difficult of readjustment they will prove."
Journalist John T. Flynn, a former socialist, in his 1944 bookAs We Go Marching, surveyed the interwar policies of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, and pointed to what he called uncomfortably similar American policies. Flynn saw links between 'generic' fascism and a large number of policies of the United States. He said that "the New Dealers ... began to flirt with the alluring pastime of reconstructing the capitalist system ... and in the process of this new career they began to fashion doctrines that turned out to be the principles of fascism." See a further discussion of these claims linking the New Deal to statism, corporatism, and fascism at Fascism and ideology.
Last edited by Retired Marine 1967; 06-01-2012 at 11:45 AM..
In his 1951 memoirs former Republican President Herbert Hoover argued that some (but not all) New Deal programs were "fascist," carrying a combination of rule by big business corporations and presidential dictatorship. [Memoirs v3, p420][6]
"Among the early Roosevelt fascist measures was the National Industry Recovery Act (NRA) of June 16, 1933.... These ideas were first suggested by Gerald Swope (of the General Electric Company)... [and] the United States Chamber of Commerce. During the campaign of 1932, Henry I. Harriman, president of that body, urged that I agree to support these proposals, informing me that Mr. Roosevelt had agreed to do so. I tried to show him that this stuff was pure fascism; that it was a remaking of Mussolini's 'corporate state' and refused to agree to any of it. He informed me that in view of my attitude, the business world would support Roosevelt with money and influence. That for the most part proved true."
Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal. It was Mussolini's success in Italy, with his government-directed economy, that led the early New Dealers to say 'But Mussolini keeps the trains running on time.
In 1993 economist and author Sheldon Richman wrote:
Roosevelt's National Recovery Act (NRA) attempted to cartelize the American economy just as Mussolini had cartelized Italy's. Under the NRA Roosevelt established industry-wide boards with the power to set and enforce prices, wages, and other terms of employment, production, and distribution for all companies in an industry. Through the Agricultural Adjustment Act the government exercised similar control over farmers. Interestingly, Mussolini viewed Roosevelt's New Deal as "boldly... interventionist in the field of economics."
American historian Srđa Trifković, (originally from Serbia), in an article, wrote:
"Roosevelt and his 'Brain Trust,' the architects of the New Deal, were fascinated by Italy’s fascism - a term which was not pejorative at the time. In America, it was seen as a form of economic nationalism built around consensus planning by the established elites in government, business, and labor."
In his September 13, 2002 article, "What is American Corporatism?",[28]Robert Locke( conservative) writes
"In classical capitalism, what has been called the 'night-watchman' state, government's role in the economy is simply to prevent force or fraud from disrupting the autonomous operation of the free market. The market is trusted to provide. Under corporatism, it is not, instead being systematically manipulated to deliver goods to political constituencies."He states that the Federal Reserve System and the New Deal were the major beginnings of American corporatism. He details 13 other examples. He states that the Federal Reserve Bank is a government-approved cartel of private banks.
I am sorry to put it so bluntly, you have no idea of what you write in your posts -- and this last post takes the cake. FDR a corporatist? FDR railed against big business. Perhaps you should read some of his speeches, like this one:
and this one:
Corporatism, also known as corporativism, is a system of economic, political, or social organization that involves association of the people of society into groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, patronage, union, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of common interests. Corporatism is theoretically based upon the interpretation of a community as an organic body. The term corporatism is based on the Latin root word "corpus" meaning "body".
Yea right. This theory presumes that making people starve will give them the incentive to lift themselves out of poverty and providing a program that provides nutrition for children keeps children in poverty; providing Medicaid for the poor keeps them in poverty.
What pghquest and others who think like him don't want to acknowledge is that these programs were put in place because we had poverty. If social programs cause poverty why is it than when we only had claw-in-tooth capitalism there were lots of poor people?
But this outlines the differences in the Parties. The GOP uses whatever excuse, no matter how baseless, to justify cutting programs for Americans while cutting taxes for the rich.
Why dont you explain to me how government subsidies, which afford people a poverty lifestyle, lifts people up?, and why the more we bsubsidize poverty lifestyles, the more people we have living in it.. I'll wait
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