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Old 09-27-2012, 10:58 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,588,062 times
Reputation: 2880

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Beebe View Post
Do you consider Social Security en entitlement? Medicare? You realize that people have PAID INTO these systems, right?

Let's say we have a system. I put 100 dollars into the system. Then, I take 700 dollars out of it.

Where does the other 600 dollars come from? It's an entitlement. You pay 100, you get 700. You didn't earn that other 600, it's being given to you.....on the backs of other people who are currently putting in THEIR 100 dollars in the hopes of getting 700. The only time some of this gap is made up is when some people put in their 100 dollars and die before they can get their 700.

This model COMPLETELY fails the queuing theory. It's reliant upon an ever expanding workforce to subsidize those who have left it. It can't be done. So yes, it's an entitlement. People right now are taking my 100 dollars in order to get their 700, and my 100 damn sure won't be there when I'm their age.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:16 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Let's say we have a system. I put 100 dollars into the system. Then, I take 700 dollars out of it.

Where does the other 600 dollars come from? It's an entitlement. You pay 100, you get 700. You didn't earn that other 600, it's being given to you.....on the backs of other people who are currently putting in THEIR 100 dollars in the hopes of getting 700. The only time some of this gap is made up is when some people put in their 100 dollars and die before they can get their 700.

This model COMPLETELY fails the queuing theory. It's reliant upon an ever expanding workforce to subsidize those who have left it. It can't be done. So yes, it's an entitlement. People right now are taking my 100 dollars in order to get their 700, and my 100 damn sure won't be there when I'm their age.
IOW, it's a ponzi scheme (just like any other socialist program), the likes of which would make even Madoff blush.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,245,092 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
The impact of the video can be seen on polling numbers taken right after his video was released. It shows a dramatic increase in voters for Pres. Obama in key swing states. I think I hear the fat lady warming up.
The only answer is a large sock and a little duct tape for the guy!
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,216,690 times
Reputation: 16752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Beebe View Post
Do you consider Social Security en entitlement? Medicare? You realize that people have PAID INTO these systems, right?
Actually, you do not realize that no one "paid into these systems".

The entitlement system is basically a "Tax and Bribe" scam.

In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits. Benefits are at the sole discretion of Congress.

Property Rights: The Hidden Issue of Social Security Reform, Cato Social Security Choice Paper No. 19
"One of the most enduring myths of Social Security is that a worker has a legal right to his Social Security benefits. Many workers assume that, if they pay Social Security taxes into the system, they have some sort of legal guarantee to the system's benefits. The truth is exactly the opposite. It has long been law that there is no legal right to Social Security. In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits."
When the CONgress hits "the wall" and can't borrow more nor spend more, the recipient class will suffer.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Actually, you do not realize that no one "paid into these systems".

The entitlement system is basically a "Tax and Bribe" scam.

In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits. Benefits are at the sole discretion of Congress.

Property Rights: The Hidden Issue of Social Security Reform, Cato Social Security Choice Paper No. 19
"One of the most enduring myths of Social Security is that a worker has a legal right to his Social Security benefits. Many workers assume that, if they pay Social Security taxes into the system, they have some sort of legal guarantee to the system's benefits. The truth is exactly the opposite. It has long been law that there is no legal right to Social Security. In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits."
When the CONgress hits "the wall" and can't borrow more nor spend more, the recipient class will suffer.
Unfortunately, that's true. SS and Medicare are a government scam. Even though we contribute to both via payroll taxes, we have no legal rights to any benefits thereof.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:15 PM
 
78,444 posts, read 60,652,129 times
Reputation: 49745
Stop arguing guys. Obama has this one in the bag per the OP. No need to argue further or bother to vote....just crack open a cold one and chill out.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:42 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,317 posts, read 22,395,454 times
Reputation: 18436
Default Better suited for shoveling horse manure

Romney was on the ropes before those idiotic statements about the 47%. His party hadn't proven since Bush left that they were better. In fact, they had REGRESSED. Romney was soundly rejected in '08, and hadn't proven that anything is better about him now. In fact, he was stumbling, hiding, and avoiding scrutiny of his taxes and his BAIN involvement. He was also the nominee by default because this year's GOP presidential field was historically atrocious. Huntsman was a better candidate. He also failed to convince the country that the Republican obstructionists in Congress didn't exist. He failed big time here.

Couple all of this with his stupid speeches, lack of details about his plans, empty rhetoric, incredibly lousy VP pick, shameful performance abroad during the Olympics, stupid comments about Libya, and the utter decimation of him as a man, politician, governor, candidate at the DNC, and it's no wonder that he looks better suited for shoveling horse manure on Bush's farm than running the country.

All in all, even a dead Ted Kennedy is more relevant than this goon.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:07 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,300,068 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
The impact of the video can be seen on polling numbers taken right after his video was released. It shows a dramatic increase in voters for Pres. Obama in key swing states. I think I hear the fat lady warming up.
Yes, I think that comment has hurt Romney politically. I was one who thought his comment was deplorable, but to me it is basically a standard conservative talking point about millions of other Americans, so I wasn't sure if it would hurt him, but it clearly has hurt him.

What surprised were the conservatives who thought his comment was this great thing that was a political winner for him.

Those conservative writers, bloggers, reporters, commentators, radio hosts, etc who thought the comment was great and publicly encouraged Romney to own it should have their credibility destroyed.

I mean common sense says that it is a bad idea to insult half of the nation by basically calling them losers. The conservative who is so caught up in conservative fantasyland that they didn't understand that an apology needed to be offered immediately, need to start dealing with reality.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:51 AM
 
16,376 posts, read 22,497,010 times
Reputation: 14398
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Wishful thinking aside, it can't be denied that the trends have favored Obama the past week. Even Gallup tracking, which has showed about a 1-2 pt race for some time, has Obama up 6 today. (Rasmussen tracking still has it tied, however).

But anyway, if is due to the 47% video, that's a sad commentary. Those remarks, while a little sloppily expressed, brought up an important and little-discussed point. The 47% number (pct of tax filers who pay zero or negative federal income tax) has more than doubled since 1990, with little or no notice. The number was pretty stable at around 20% from 1950-1990. After 1990 it started to climb, continuing to it's current peak of 47% (and will likely be higher next year).

So we've got a tax system now where the top 10% carry 70% of the burden, the 47-90 percentile carrys 30%, and the bottom 47% carry zero. That's a ridiculously unstable structure. Unstable things tend to bring about collapse.
Bush tax cuts. The GOP was signing and dancing about giving new tax cuts and tax credits. Their motto is smaller government/no tax increases/cut taxes.

Now all of a sudden fewer people are paying taxes. This is a direct result of those cuts. The bottom earners paid very little taxes before because their wages were so low and after the standard deduction and deductions for children. Then add Bushes tax cuts and they don't earn enough to pay the taxes per the Bush tax cuts.

Now snooty Romney is looking down at the peons that are benefiting from the Bush tax cuts and calling them low lifes. It's class warfare and Romney's political career is OVER FOREVER because of that 47% comment. Not the one sentence - but the entire paragraph. No matter what Romney says or does for the rest of his life, that 47% comment has ruined his reputation forever.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:56 AM
 
Location: None of your business
5,466 posts, read 4,424,993 times
Reputation: 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post

I mean common sense says that it is a bad idea to insult half of the nation by basically calling them losers.
But it's ok to call tax paying Americans unpatriotic right?
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