Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The whole thing has vastly grown outside of any liberal's fantasy.
Trump has exceeded everyone's worst expectations.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
A lot of people have been indicted, a lot of people are cooperating with law enforcement, and a lot of crimes are being unearthed.
Indicted: 1. Flynn (for lying). 2. Manafort (for something that had nothing to do with "Russian collusion." 3. George Papadopoulos (making false statements) 4. 13 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer.
Gee ...none have anything to do with "Russian collusion" (not a crime) to help Trump win the election.
Quote:
Whether one specific crime has occurred is still up in the air, as the investigation is on going.
No "specific crime" was named to be investigated, which, according to the rules that govern the naming of a Special Counselor, is required. Thus, the 'investigation' is illegitimate. It is an investigation in search of a crime to investigate; i.e., a "witch hunt."
Quote:
investigations don't work that way.
All we can do is wait, and see what turns up.
And, of course, you know how investigations "work?" Do you have a degree in law enforcement?
How long are we supposed to wait? Two years? Three years? Ten years? In eighteen months, they have found no evidence of "Russian collusion," which was supposed to be the reason for the "investigation." Mueller has gone in every conceivable direction having nothing to do with "Russian collusion." Is this the kind of "justice" we want in America ...an FBI that may decide to investigate private citizens just to see if they have committed a crime at some point in their lives? Would you want to be investigated for no other reason?
I don't think that's what our Founders intended. Real crimes should be investigated. But no one should be investigated simply to find out if they have ever committed a crime. Mueller is using Gestapo tactics.
How long are we supposed to wait? Two years? Three years? Ten years? In eighteen months, they have found no evidence of "Russian collusion," which was supposed to be the reason for the "investigation." Mueller has gone in every conceivable direction having nothing to do with "Russian collusion." Is this the kind of "justice" we want in America ...an FBI that may decide to investigate private citizens just to see if they have committed a crime at some point in their lives? Would you want to be investigated for no other reason?
I don't think that's what our Founders intended. Real crimes should be investigated. But no one should be investigated simply to find out if they have ever committed a crime. Mueller is using Gestapo tactics.
Watergate took just over 18 months. Starr's Whitewater investigation on Clinton lasted 30 months, all the way up to the end of Clinton's term.
The first forced the sitting President out of office. The second never turned up a thing.
So far, in comparison to the above, the Mueller investigation is coming along at a pretty good clip.
There is evidence of Russian collusion. Enough to make Flynn cop a guilty plea, along with several others, and some have already been sentenced now. Manafort is the big dog, and he's fighting Mueller, as is Cohen, and both have close, long-standing ties with Trump.
One or both will most probably go down the river, but Trump may not.
If you don't like American justice, you know what you can do about it.
This is the only legal system we have, like it or not, and Mueller is most definitely NOT using Gestapo tactics. You just made that one up.
If Mueller was to use those tactics, Trump would be in prison now, disappeared, and no one would know where he is. And you too. And me, too, just for mentioning anything about the Gestapo.
Flynn didn't plead guilty to "collusion" (which isn't a crime). And many say he didn't lie. Mueller is a "dirty cop." It's what he does. He has a reputation for it.
Manafort was indicted for something in years past that had nothing to do with Trump or the campaign. And the raid on his home was another example of Mueller's dirty tactics. So dirty, that Rosenstein had to cover for him by a memo expanding Muller's authority days after the raid on Manafort's home.
The raid on Cohen's office had nothing to do with "Russian collusion" either. Mueller is overstepping and abusing his authority, and many prominent attorney's have been saying so recently. They are appalled at the direction Mueller's 'investigation' is going. Even Alan Dershowitz has condemned what Mueller is doing.
Mueller has long standing and close ties with Rosenstein, Comey, and others doing the 'investigation.' He should never have taken the position because of his conflicts of interest.
Quote:
If you don't like American justice, you know what you can do about it.
I love American justice, the way it's supposed to work. But what we have here is not "blind justice." We clearly have a "two tiered" system. This has become obvious by what has been discovered (text messages between "lovers") during this administration. Besides the fact that all the investigators are Democrats, Trump haters, and supporters of Hillary Clinton.
Mueller is using Gestapo tactics, and I am not the first to point that out. That description has been used even by people like Alan Dershowitz, and I know Dershowitz loves the law and our system of justice. He is about as fair minded as one can get. He has nothing good to say about Mueller and this investigation.
Alan Dershowitz quoted a famous prosecutor (I forget his name) who said, "Show me the man; I'll find you the crime." That is what Mueller is doing.
Hillary Clinton has committed many crimes, but she has never been indicted for one of them (insider trading, gross negligence in the handling of classified material, destroying documents that were under subpoena, destroying evidence, the smashing of phones and hard drives). Two tiered justice system? I think so. Comey lied to protect Hillary Clinton, and he wrote an exoneration letter months before completing the investigation and interviewing all witnesses, including Hillary! What does that tell you?
Flynn didn't plead guilty to "collusion" (which isn't a crime). And many say he didn't lie. Mueller is a "dirty cop." It's what he does. He has a reputation for it.
Manafort was indicted for something in years past that had nothing to do with Trump or the campaign. And the raid on his home was another example of Mueller's dirty tactics. So dirty, that Rosenstein had to cover for him by a memo expanding Muller's authority days after the raid on Manafort's home.
The raid on Cohen's office had nothing to do with "Russian collusion" either. Mueller is overstepping and abusing his authority, and many prominent attorney's have been saying so recently. They are appalled at the direction Mueller's 'investigation' is going. Even Alan Dershowitz has condemned what Mueller is doing.
Mueller has long standing and close ties with Rosenstein, Comey, and others doing the 'investigation.' He should never have taken the position because of his conflicts of interest.
I love American justice, the way it's supposed to work. But what we have here is not "blind justice." We clearly have a "two tiered" system. This has become obvious by what has been discovered (text messages between "lovers") during this administration. Besides the fact that all the investigators are Democrats, Trump haters, and supporters of Hillary Clinton.
Mueller is using Gestapo tactics, and I am not the first to point that out. That description has been used even by people like Alan Dershowitz, and I know Dershowitz loves the law and our system of justice. He is about as fair minded as one can get. He has nothing good to say about Mueller and this investigation.
Alan Dershowitz quoted a famous prosecutor (I forget his name) who said, "Show me the man; I'll find you the crime." That is what Mueller is doing.
Hillary Clinton has committed many crimes, but she has never been indicted for one of them (insider trading, gross negligence in the handling of classified material, destroying documents that were under subpoena, destroying evidence, the smashing of phones and hard drives). Two tiered justice system? I think so. Comey lied to protect Hillary Clinton, and he wrote an exoneration letter months before completing the investigation and interviewing all witnesses, including Hillary! What does that tell you?
We have one. Open your eyes.
I'm sorry you're living where up is down, white is black, and evil is good, but that's your choice.
Who are the 'many' who said Flynn was innocent? Name them, please. I'm sure Flynn would like to know who they are.
And since when is a Lt. General of the United States Army a 'dirty cop'?
Manafort's crimes do go way back, but the one's he's being prosecuted for only date back to the campaign in 2016.
You only like American justice when it agrees with your blackhearted world view. Sorry if it doesn't turn out that way, but it's good for the rest of us.
I'm sorry you're living where up is down, white is black, and evil is good, but that's your choice.
Lol! Seriously? Sounds to me like you're describing where you live! Hilarious!
Quote:
Who are the 'many' who said Flynn was innocent?
You would know if you got your news anywhere other than CNN or MSNBC. That's you're problem, not mine. It's been well publicized (along with their names - and I don't have them at my finger tips ...sorry about that). But this is why the charges against him may be dropped.
Quote:
And since when is a Lt. General of the United States Army a 'dirty cop'?
Lt. General of the United States? You're confused. Mueller was never in the Air Force. He was a Marine.
As a prosecutor, Mueller withheld exculpatory evidence and sent four innocent men to prison for a murder they didn't commit, in order to protect an FBI informant. Their convictions were later overturned, but not before two had died in prison. A $100 M payment was awarded to their survivors. This was only one case. There were others where Mueller's ethics were questionable. Again, if you only get your "news" from CNN and MSNBC, et al, you probably would never hear this, because they don't want you to know. To them, Mueller is a god. He isn't. He has been called a "dirty cop" by those who know of his past, including Joe diGeniva, founding partner of the Washington, D.C. law firm of diGenova & Toensing, LLP (diGenova & Toensing). He has been a guest on many news programs discussing the Mueller "investigation."
Quote:
Manafort's crimes do go way back, but the one's he's being prosecuted for only date back to the campaign in 2016.
Details please? And what do his "crimes" have to do with "Russian collusion?"
Quote:
You only like American justice when it agrees with your blackhearted world view. Sorry if it doesn't turn out that way, but it's good for the rest of us.
I like justice as our Founders intended it to be, blind, knowing not class or political status, but being applied equally to all. Hillary Clinton was given a pass for some serious crimes, lesser crimes of which have sent others to prison. This you know full well. That is the "justice" you apparently agree with. That isn't good for anybody.
Not a shred that you know about, this investigation is going into many different directions, with crimes by the trump mob family that cover a wide spectrum. In less than one year there have been multiple convictions, confessed crimes, even one already sentenced to jail. Now with the investigation of Cohen opening a huge Pandora's box, this thing will be extended. In 4 years of Benhgazy witch hunt no wrong doing was established, only stupid thing apparently established was that the attack was not triggered by a video, big deal, What difference does it make?
What difference--
Well, I guess the term "witch hunt" is more applicable to the Benghazy investigation since no charges came out of that at all---of ANYONE...
The issue is how long is it going to take
The SDNY investigation could be held up by the deliberate pacing of clearing information from Cohen's files--as to whether it is protected or not
Attorneys love to stall when it is to their advantage--they up their billable hours and keep their client out of court and jail every minute they delay
The case that was cites as prior example of "special master" took over 2 yrs...
We can't want that long -- the public's attention span is as long as a gnat's eyelash
Trump benefits the longer the evidence is kept under wraps
Mueller has been very circumspect with that he has ACTUALLY released as evidence of crimes
Lying to the FBI took down Flynn and Papadoupoulous and Van derZwann
Gates--maybe that was his pleading as well
And you know there was ton of illegal activity==money laundering, working as agent for foreign interest w/o registering, tax evasion--
Manafort's actions go back beyond 2016--
That is why Rosenstein wrote the letter authorizing Mueller to go into other areas
But to keep the pressure on Trump and his criminal family like Jared K and the Trump co and others involved
There has to be something that comes out REAL
But Trump should be grateful that Mueller is NOT leaking what they have found
That is the power of Mueller's threat to Trump
Trump has no real clue as to WHAT Mueller knows
Does he have Trump's tax returns--who knows
Does he have recordings from that Trump Tower meeting--who knows
Does he have someone on the inside of Trump's "protective circle" who really is a mole--who knows?
How close is he to proving Michael Cohen was really IN Prague--sounds likely
How close is he to getting some Russian hacker to roll to get out of jail---that also seems pretty likely
And Trump HATES not knowing
He is OCD/anal-retentive to the nth degree
He wants to know what everyone is doing at all times
So just like all those people standing on the shore at the beach in "Jaws" and worried about where that shark was in the depths, unseen....
That is Trump--and he hates it
But in all honesty so does the public waiting to see how this will play out
Now me--I believe Trump is guilty--by word or deed--he has been a crook since leaving military school...
But I admit that Trump learned how to get away with doing bad things from Roy Cohn who was a master of the illegal act that escaped punishment...
So finding Trump's fingerprints on anything might not be the end result--might just be circumstantial evidence
But others are not so smart and they are sloppy--
There are paper trails and intercepted phone calls and insider info that can be used to put other people in jeopardy and likely in jail...the Trump/Russian bank/DeVos servers are still being investigated for gosh sakes
I don't think fines are going to cover hacking an American election
Except collusion isn't a crime whether Hillary or Trump did it. In the Uranium One case there is a whole laundry list of real crimes like money laundering, bribery, racketeering, influence peddling and others I can't recall now.
I would like to read an article backing all these claims, please provide one.
With the FBI's confiscation of decades of files and likely audio files from Michael Cohen's offices and home and safety deposit box the intensity of uncovering actual/physical evidence of "collusion" in the election between Trump et al and Russia, GRU Hackers and aides like Assange seems to grow exponentially....
There is new article from McClatchy that says Mueller has two sources proving Trump's Michael Cohen WAS in Prague, dealing with paying off Russian hackers for trolling Clinton and other work--which Cohen has vehemently denied and sued Buzzfeed over its publishing the Steele Dossier which included that point of information...
I saw a blog where woman had given pretty specific and detailed info about Cohen's movements in that week of August and his access to private planes that made the trip to Prague very plausible...
Maybe Gates and Nadar were able to give Mueller specific insight into Cohen's movements--
My concern is IF the evidence become uncontrovertable that Trump's campaign did have direct financial and electronic input and assistance from Russia--even at somewhat of a distance--like using same hackers the GRU has used before in other elections---
Like finding evidence of Russian money coming into the RNC to finance not just Trump but other GOP campaigns
How do you deal with a totally corrupt presidency?
And I don't mean Trump's nepotism or making money or wasting money--
I mean a president who was elected because that election was a fraud!
You can throw out Trump and Pence (who was riding that campaign trail and can't be viewed as clean of any corruption just because he says he is--after all we know he has lied specifically about his knowledge of Flynn's lies and other issues)
There is a method for doing that but the replacement leads to the Speaker of the House--
Paul Ryan--who was directly involved in the election with the RNC funding of other candidates...then the President pro tempore of the Senate--then into the Cabinet (which would be an illegal/improper option)...
Even Mattis would be tainted simply because Trump picked him...
If the RNC was compromised--hacked by Russia and blackmailed because of it--then Ryan's credibility could be impugned
After all he has certainly not taken any significant/permanent steps to rein Nunes in or support the House's committees to investigate Russian interference...
He attempts to wash his hands of anything that might mean taking a real stance...
How could Gorsach still be allowed to sit on the Supreme Court if he was nominated by a President who came to office via Russian hacking the election? Or any other judges he nominated who made it through the approval process?
How could a tax bill that a fraudulent president signed be law of the land?
How could any of his immigration policies or actions of his Cabinet be allowed to stand...
I jus think the real Constitutional crisis is going to come not because Trump might try to fire Rosenstein or Sessions or interfere even more with Mueller's investigation--
But what do we do as a nation IF that investigation can prove that Trump is really a tool of Putin or at least came to win the election because of direct input from foreign sources???
I just don't think you can say we use the Speaker (who already said he is not running in 18) and his appointees to fill the void until 2020...
I wonder, do you do anything other than spend time finding things that make you feel better about the possibility Trump will be impeached or worse? You know, in your heart the chances are slim to none it is going to happen.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
