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Well, there's quite some Turkish immigrants in my city, so I think I can talk with a little bit of authority here. Most Turkish immigrants are from Anatolia, Turkey's Asian part. They do tend to stick to themselves and even the third generation is fiercely nationalistic, feelingTurkish, not Belgian. The third generation also tends to be more religious than the second generation (which was not very religious). So did they integrate well? Not really.
But on the other hand, they are a lot less likely than Morrocan (the largest immigrant group in Belgium) males to commit crimes. Don't ask me the exact sociological reasons for it, but for some reason Turkish males are less violent than Morrocans. I think they just feel less insecure, coming from a country with this grandiose history.
I know a divorced woman from Istanbul who's been living here for 20 years now and she's not exactly your muslim woman-cliché image. She wears spicy outfits, drinks alcohol, dates Belgian men - and she looks down her nose at the Anatolian turks, who she calls backwards and narrow-minded. Like most born and bred citizens of Istanbul.
Anyway, should Turkey join the EU? I really don't know. If it were only the Turks from the western part, not a problem. But what another poster said: the Anatolian ones are far more conservative and less prone to adapt to western values. And most Turkish immigrants come from Anatolia...
Anyway, what I hear is that less and less Turkey wants to join the EU. So there might not be a debate at all anymore in a couple of years.
Not all of the countries of the European Union are up to the same standard. The countries of Western Europe have freedom of speech and gay rights. Many are starting to bring in laws that accept gay marriage. I think the EU will be a lot stricter on Turkey joining than they have been with some of the past countries. Bulgaria and Romania were let in too soon and the EU is regretting this now.
Greece should not have been allowed to join the Euro as they cooked the books regarding their finances but I'm sure they fulfilled the criteria for joining the EU. Do you know otherwise?
I live in Australia and we have freedom of speech here so I don't think the US is the only country with free speech. I'd be interested in why you say this?
- AKP and Erdogan. They are turning more and more to Islam and extreme nationalism. Atatürk would turn in his grave. We need some real commitment from Ankara about secularism. It is not a problem that Turkey is Muslim and most Europeans are Christian. The problem is that Turkey, especially the ruling party, has a very different view on the level of influence religion should have over the state.
- Turkey refuses to acknowledge Cyprus and occupies the north of it. They should have invaded to protect their fellow Turkish-Cypriots, but then leave it to the UN to deal with all the violations that Greece or Cyprus may have done to trigger their actions.
- Turkey should apologize for the systematic extermination of its Armenian population.
- Article 301 and freedom of speech.
- Turkey's religious minority policy.
- The Kurdish-Turkish conflict, which pretty much turned into a war.
- The country's wealth is mainly concentrated in the northwest and west. Freedom of movement for workers will be problematic and as long as the EU doesn’t have its house in order in its present composition, admitting new members should be filtered.
There are people who don’t want Turkey to join under any circumstances and those who want it to join so badly that they pretend Turkey currently meets all the criteria right now. Both sides act moronic.
I say if Turkey can meet the same criteria that are expected from any member, they are welcome. But as long as insulting “turkishness” is a crime and freedom of the press is fantasy, as long as adultery is a criminal act, as long as Kurds don't receive the same treatment that all minority groups do in EU member states, as long as they consort with Iran and have border disputes with Iraq and Armenia, they should be held back in the integration process.
More like a decay of the quality of posts on this forum
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84
Gay rights are not a barometer of civilization- rather of complete moral decay.
It's not gay rights, it's human rights. So not oppressing a minority is "complete moral decay", huh. What country you're from? There's a high likelihood the Nazis thought the same about your country and would have loved to put them all into Auschwitz. So I suppose that would have been ok.
Gay rights are not a barometer of civilization- rather of complete moral decay.
If a country wants to join the EU they have to recognise gay rights and things like freedom of religion, equal right for women. It is human rights like Glucorious said.
The real question is Why would Turkey want to join the EU?
It's a sinking ship. Common monetary unit was always a really bad idea. No EU country has control over their own economy.
I've wondered that myself. Turkey already has a customs union with the EU so I really don't know what benefit they would get from joining. They would lose autonomy and have to fit in and toe the line. The EU also doesn't have the same benefits for new members that they had years ago such as agricultural subsidies and structural funds; not at the same level anyway. I really can't fathom why they want to become part of the EU? The only possible benefit I could see would be the forced modernising that would come with fulfilling the criteria and maybe distancing themselves from the Middle East. Turkey has wanted to Europeanise since the time of Ataturk.
It is an interesting question to ponder. I would love to hear from Turkish people.
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More like a decay of the quality of posts on this forum
