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Old 03-03-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 256,639 times
Reputation: 64

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boxus, this is an international treaty or call it agreement, if you prefer.
You cannot compare it with US-laws.
Russia loses face and trust, if they violate it, even without "enforcement".
Who would rely on Russia treaties or memorandums in the future ?
What about START and such ?

Ukraine may feel justified to violate it themselves in the future, if Russia already
violated it. E.g. they could again seek for nuclear weapons.

Russia using tricks, letting their vassals do the work is still problematic
and a loss of trust, even if the wording of the memorandum is not violated.

whether Timoschenko or Klitschko or whoever would be a better leader,
that's another question. So far I'm just trying to figure out the truth and
reliability and predictability of Russian statements and actions


USA,UK could provide some surveillance, satellite pictures, AWACS
or such - they are sooo interested in spying anyway.
Maybe a good opportunity to justify it.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,841,955 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadym View Post
The referendum is not valid the law in Ukraine, only decisions of the Verkhovna Rada.
Current "Verkhovna Rada" is illegitimate. All members of the "Verkhovna Rada" have been chosen by a small crowd of maidan who were armed with AK-74 and knives. The whole ukrainian nation didn't participate in this shameful act.
And needless to say that Yatsenuyk is the US puppet.

Last edited by musiqum; 03-03-2014 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,841,955 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Kind of rich, considering the behavior of Europeans like the Germans and Frnech when it comes to Syria and Libya. How did that neo-imperialist adventure work out? Now you are complaining about Russia acting like the old Czarist state? hilarious.

I suppose when western states act like imperialists, they are supporting democracy and acting justly. But when Russia and China do the same, they are evil and backward. Very rich.
Good point!
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum View Post
Current "Verkhovna Rada" is illegitimate. All members of the "Verkhovna Rada" have been chosen by a small crowd of maidan who were armed with AK-74 and knives. The whole ukrainian nation didn't participate in this shameful act.
I'll add that now these people want to borrow from the IMF, agreeing with all the proposed conditions. Ukraine's economy will plunge into darkness, as in Russia in the 90s.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 256,639 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum View Post
Good point!
I don't really see that German imperialism in Syria and Libya ;-)
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,841,955 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadym View Post
Relations of Russia and Ukraine is not family and various privileges are cancelled..
Where did you get such stupid idea from?
Oh, wait... I know the answer. But you can't tell for the whole Ukrainian nation. You are too young and uneducated for that.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,841,955 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
I don't really see that German imperialism in Syria and Libya ;-)
No wonder.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,249,970 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
Russian and Chinese foreign secretaries talked to each other on the phone
about Ukraine. They largely agreed in their assessment, says Russia.

but we have no confirmation from China, afaik.
xinhua seems to be silent about this.
"largely in agreement about Ukraine" is vague.

From other xinhua articles I doubt that they
support the invasion.

In general, I think China wants central power and government stability.

this is partly in agreement with Russia about the Kiew-riots
but also in disagreement with their crimea actions ...

China, as Russia, (and most other governments)
don't really like separation movements

It would be very interesting to see how the Chinese handle this.

China and Russia are friends and allies right now in the SCO. But the Chinese have a very long sense of history and they know in the long run that the alliance with Russia may or may not last. Not to mention the Chinese also had their own experience with Russian expansionism in the past.

The Chinese know that if relations someday declined with Russia, it would be very useful to have allies on the other side of Russia - a independent Ukraine or even better the European Union. The classic saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Not to mention the EU and their American allies are among China's best customers. The top priority for China right now is the economy and raising the living standards of her people and the Russians cannot replace the European and North American consumer market for the Chinese.

So my sense is that the Chinese will not go all the way and support Russia offensively - the Chinese will not isolate themselves internationally the way the Russians are doing. But they may support the Russians defensively and perhaps provide limited diplomatic support.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,841,955 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Did you see this? Disgusting.
Pro Russians or/and ethnic Russians humiliating pro Ukrainian activists in Kharkiv
I can provide you with a tons youtube videos with what pro-ukrainian activists (banderists) did before.
But I know, it doesn't make sense. Because you preffer to live in your biassed world anyway.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,841,955 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
If I write something, you say that this Russian propaganda. In this situation, I better not say anything.
You won't be able to prove or explain something to some intellectual zombie who lives with their own mindset that full of false stamps. They don't want to get any objective view which would break their opinion.
So, just relax and enjoy your life.
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