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There is a new military unit in ukrainian army - SS (Силы Спецоопераций) - Special operations forces. It reminds me something...
So has Russia. Силы специальных операций Российской Федерации
Early Saturday morning, 26 October, forces from Russia's Spetsnaz (Special Forces, literally "special purpose") from the FSB (Alpha Group and Vympel), with the assistance of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) SOBR unit, surrounded and stormed the theater...although many hostages at first took the gas to be smoke from a fire, it soon became apparent to gunmen and hostages alike that a mysterious gas had been pumped into the building.Different reports said it came either through the specially created hole in the wall, that it was pumped through the theater's ventilation system, or that it emerged from beneath the stage. It is thought that the security services pumped an aerosolanaesthetic, later conjectured to be weaponized fentanyl, into the theater through the air conditioning system. The discovery caused panic in the auditorium. Hostage Anna Andrianova, a correspondent for Moskovskaya Pravda, called Echo of Moscow radio studio and told on-air in a live broadcastinterview that the government forces had begun an operation by pumping gas into the hall
If the Donbass separatists don't want to be a part of Ukraine, they can just pack their bags and leave to mother Russia. They don't have the right to just split up the whole country, at least not when they and their ideas are a minority in the area.
If they think they'll have a better life in Russia, go. So did millions and millions of Europeans only 100 years ago.
Population of Donbass - 7 millions, and this is their homeland and they have the right to be independent. How can you imagine 7 millions moving to Russia? Maybe you should suggest people of Scotland to leave their homes just because they want to be independent?
Quote:
They don't have the right to just split up the whole country
So why did Finland split up the whole country Russia when finns declared their independence?
1. Maidan was not supported by the majority, Yanukovich was elected by the majority.
2. When Yanukovich was ousted unconstitutionally, this dissolved the legal basis for the country staying together, thus the once the constitutional was grossly violated by ousting the president, the knitting of democracy and represented rule that held Ukraine together went along with it.
3. Finland used the abdication of the tsar as the legal basis for its claim to independence from Russia. Even the Finnish Civil War had intervention from the outside, yes, even your own internal conflict was settled with the assistance of outsiders as well as the US Revolutionary War.
4. They are not splitting up the whole country, just separating Donbass from the calamity Kiev has ended up being. People get tired of going through revolts (second one in ten years), and having their elected president get ousted by the minority party that lost the election.
5. Know one has any idea how much support they have from locals in the area. It is known for fact that they do have a sizable support, whether this is a majority or not who knows. Also is known that there is a sizable anti-Kiev sentiment as well, whether this is a majority or not who knows. It is also not known how many do not support Kiev, yet supports staying with Ukraine or not stay with Ukraine, become independent or join Russia, or who support Ukraine but also with factors above. No legitimate poll has been conducted.
As a note, the US Revolution against England also did not have the majority support. It is rare for any movement like this to have a majority support.
1. Several polls showed that around 50% supported Maidan, ranging drom 45 to 57%. In any case, Maidan enjoyed wide support, otherwise it couldn't had worked. The ousting of Yanukovych enjoyed almost total support after the sniper attacks.
2. We've gone trough this a 1000 times. According to international law the forced abdication of the president was completely legal.
3. Finland wasn't Russia and the russification policy threatened the whole existence of Finland. The right of independent rule was completely different from the armed separatist bands in Eastern Ukraine. If Finland's declaration of independence would've been illegal, so would the independence of the African colonies as well.
4. While I understand the people are frustrated by constant revolts and the breakdown of law and order, putting balaklavas on and trying to separate a piece of the country is not the right method. There's absolutely nothing that is threatening Donbass or its people. This is just ridiculous opportunism that will not end well.
5. No, that's correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atai J.
Population of Donbass - 7 millions, and this is their homeland and they have the right to be independent. How can you imagine 7 millions moving to Russia? Maybe you should suggest people of Scotland to leave their homes just because they want to be independent?
So why did Finland split up the whole country Russia when finns declared their independence?
How do they have the right to be independent? The Donbass isn't a nationality and never has been. Why didn't anyone do anything in 1991? Why suddenly when Yanukovych was ousted is there a longing for independence? And nobody knows how many of those 7 million really even want to be separated from Ukraine.
Scotland is a completely different thing, and everything is done according to the law. The Scots have the right to vote and decide their future for themselves. In Donbass there's a paramilitary junta. There's a huge difference between Scotland and Donbass.
How do they have the right to be independent? The Donbass isn't a nationality and never has been. Why didn't anyone do anything in 1991? Why suddenly when Yanukovych was ousted is there a longing for independence? And nobody knows how many of those 7 million really even want to be separated from Ukraine.
Scotland is a completely different thing, and everything is done according to the law. The Scots have the right to vote and decide their future for themselves. In Donbass there's a paramilitary junta. There's a huge difference between Scotland and Donbass.
Russia split them up themselves.
Which difference? Difference between "white people" and "black people"?
People of Donbass wanted to live in Ukraine as an autonomy, but after their cities and villages was shelled and bombed they now looking forward to live in their own country - Novorossia.
And if Finland declared its independence 97 years ago why Novorossia hasn't right to do the same?
Which difference? Difference between "white people" and "black people"?
People of Donbass wanted to live in Ukraine as an autonomy, but after their cities and villages was shelled and bombed they now looking forward to live in their own country - Novorossia.
And if Finland declared its independence 97 years ago why Novorossia hasn't right to do the same?
Scotland & Finland = a nation, a nationality, an ethnicity, an identity, a cultural entity, both have at least had an own language, and there's a claim of independence that is legal. In Scotland it's the upcoming referendum, in Finland it was the declaration by the parliament chosen by the people and the broken promises of the Czar. In Finland's case the revokation of privilegia and the russification policy threatened the whole existence of the Finnish culture and language, so with that Russia became nothing more than an unlawful occupant.
Novorossija = A term invented by Russians, not a nation, not a nationality, not an ethnicity, not an identity, not a cultural entity, no language, and nothing more than gunmen with balaklavas.
If you don't see the difference. And in the meantime you could think on why Donbass has the right to declare independence ad Chechnya doesn't.
Last edited by Rozenn; 06-20-2014 at 09:37 AM..
Reason: Rude
The official representative of US State department Jen Psaki once again struck the world with the statement. This time the question from the journalist Matt Li who constantly with it discusses, concerned refugees from Ukraine, being in the territory of Russia.
"In Russia there are no refugees from Ukraine, – Psaki declares. – In Ukraine everything is quiet and under our control".
Then Matt Li took an interest, who these women and the children arriving in a large number to regions of Russia.
"It is tourists. In the Rostov mountains fine medical mountain air", – without reflecting the representative of State Department of the USA answers.
P.S. In Rostov there are no mountains))
P.P.S. Interestingly, in America all representatives of State Department such illiterate?
Last edited by Rozenn; 06-20-2014 at 09:38 AM..
Reason: Copyright issues
Scotland & Finland = a nation, a nationality, an ethnicity, an identity, a cultural entity, both have at least had an own language, and there's a claim of independence that is legal. In Scotland it's the upcoming referendum, in Finland it was the declaration by the parliament chosen by the people and the broken promises of the Czar. In Finland's case the revokation of privilegia and the russification policy threatened the whole existence of the Finnish culture and language, so with that Russia became nothing more than an unlawful occupant.
Novorossija = A term invented by Russians, not a nation, not a nationality, not an ethnicity, not an identity, not a cultural entity, no language, and nothing more than gunmen with balaklavas.
If you don't see the difference, you must be a bit thick. And in the meantime you could think on why Donbass has the right to declare independence ad Chechnya doesn't.
People of Donbass have their own ethnicity - Russian (Ukrainians are part of the russian nation), they have their own history, language and mentality. And if you want to consider them to be bandits you can do it - but it won't change anything - they will win in this war. And the main thing - home guard of Donbass fights not against ukrainian army - it's just a tool - they fights against EU, US and NATO which are authors of this hell.
The official representative of US State department Jen Psaki: "In Ukraine everything is quiet and under our control".
No doubt. US "controls" the situation.
Of course they will, as the Vietcong won against mighty America, as Fidel Castro won in Cuba, as countless gerillas and people's armies (FLN in Algeria) won against colonial powers.
The difference here is that back then the leftists were demonstrating in support of the guerillas , today they are on the side of the neo-nazis.
Times indeed "they are 'a changin'" (famous song of Bob Dylan against the Vietnam War).
- Putin very greedy dictator who can only sell gas / oil, so he wants to conquer the Ukraine ...
- Why?
- What why?
- Well, what purpose greedy dictator will seize Ukraine? What benefits he can derive from it? Your gas / oil only for lighter.
- Did not you see?
- Not once! Greedy dictator suddenly decides to grab Ukraine and begin to feed Ukraine's people? But he does not know how to feed their people. He's greedy, why he would feed others?
Pause (I think that could hear the rustling training manual)
- Die, KREMLYADI! Kremlebot Putin!
(c)
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And again Psaki
