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It was a rhetorical question. I don't for one minute believe 500 Afghans disappeared from Fort McCoy. As if they said to security on the way out, we're just going to pop down to Starbucks for a Big Mac, and then got abducted by aliens.
People go missing at the border all the time. Some are turned loose by the authorities.
They don't need to say anything to the "security on the way out."
They are free to go anywhere any time they are pleased, since they have the refugee status; they are not the detainees.
I might hear more details on what's going on there at the beginning of the next week.
But what I've heard so far about these refugees is not encouraging, let's put it this way.
P.S. It looks like Fort McCoy is not the only place they are leaving in droves by the way.
From the link in the thread in the other forum that you referenced.....
Quote:
In a statement, a U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) spokesperson declined to comment on the figures provided to Reuters by sources but said people who had left the bases "generally" had ties to the United States, like family members of friends, and resources to support themselves.
The spokesperson said that in addition, at the outset of the operation many of those evacuated were U.S. citizens, permanent residents or had approved Special Immigrant Visas so were able to depart quickly.
To the degree that the people who left under their own steam were part of those identified above, as US citizens, Green Card holders, etc. they do not have the same status as the "refugees" you referenced in this thread.
This is a case of half-truths being used to exploit a narrative.
From the link in the thread in the other forum that you referenced.....
To the degree that the people who left under their own steam were part of those identified above, as US citizens, Green Card holders, etc. they do not have the same status as the "refugees" you referenced in this thread.
This is a case of half-truths being used to exploit a narrative.
These are the same "half-truths" that you see in the statement that you quoted ( from the Reuters article I assume)-
"In a statement, a U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) spokesperson declined to comment on the figures provided to Reuters by sources but said people who had left the bases "generally" had ties to the United States, like family members of friends, and resources to support themselves.
The spokesperson said that in addition, at the outset of the operation many of those evacuated were U.S. citizens, permanent residents or had approved Special Immigrant Visas so were able to depart quickly."
They were ALL placed on those military bases as a group of the refugees precisely that in that mess called "American withdrawal from Afghanistan" no one could tell for sure who is who, while immigrating in the US.
( Apparently you've never seen what was going on in the Kabul's airport?)
Otherwise, why would the "US citizens" be placed on the military bases along with non-vetted people?
And those "special immigrants visas" were given left and right in Afghanistan, once the incompetent Biden's government realized what a disaster the whole evacuation process turned out to be, with the Taliban closing in on Kabul fast.
So yes, this incompetent government let thousands and thousands of unvetted people in the country, so those "ties to the United States like family members or friends" serve as no reassurance AT ALL.
Imagine your single average Afgahni asking for US visa under the normal circumstances.
The time and scrutiny it would take for the US authorities to vet/check him/her, before letting this person into the country.
All those rules/regulations were cancelled this time around.
Which wouldn't be as precarious if these people were not coming from the part of the world that is known for festering Islamic terrorism. ( That's why American troops ended up there in the first place, remember?)
So while all 13 thousand of them at the Fort McCoy are not the Islamic terrorists, even 50 "disgruntled Afghanis, disappointed in Western style of life" is a big concern, not to mention the ones that ( possibly) came with ulterior motives here.
Like that infamous Mohammed Atta for example.
So spare me those half-truths with "declined to comment on the figures provided" that you pitch as some *unconditionally truthful information.*
These are the same "half-truths" that you see in the statement that you quoted ( from the Reuters article I assume)-
"In a statement, a U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) spokesperson declined to comment on the figures provided to Reuters by sources but said people who had left the bases "generally" had ties to the United States, like family members of friends, and resources to support themselves.
The spokesperson said that in addition, at the outset of the operation many of those evacuated were U.S. citizens, permanent residents or had approved Special Immigrant Visas so were able to depart quickly."
They were ALL placed on those military bases as a group of the refugees precisely that in that mess called "American withdrawal from Afghanistan" no one could tell for sure who is who, while immigrating in the US.
( Apparently you've never seen what was going on in the Kabul's airport?)
Otherwise, why would the "US citizens" be placed on the military bases along with non-vetted people?
And those "special immigrants visas" were given left and right in Afghanistan, once the incompetent Biden's government realized what a disaster the whole evacuation process turned out to be, with the Taliban closing in on Kabul fast.
So yes, this incompetent government let thousands and thousands of unvetted people in the country, so those "ties to the United States like family members or friends" serve as no reassurance AT ALL.
Imagine your single average Afgahni asking for US visa under the normal circumstances.
The time and scrutiny it would take for the US authorities to vet/check him/her, before letting this person into the country.
All those rules/regulations were cancelled this time around.
Which wouldn't be as precarious if these people were not coming from the part of the world that is known for festering Islamic terrorism. ( That's why American troops ended up there in the first place, remember?)
So while all 13 thousand of them at the Fort McCoy are not the Islamic terrorists, even 50 "disgruntled Afghanis, disappointed in Western style of life" is a big concern, not to mention the ones that ( possibly) came with ulterior motives here.
Like that infamous Mohammed Atta for example.
So spare me those half-truths with "declined to comment on the figures provided" that you pitch as some *unconditionally truthful information.*
So you've now quoted the same text I did, and then announced that I had quoted the same text as you.
People can see thru that (I hope). Either way, you're losing the plot.
The US citizens were put on the same planes as the refugees because those were mostly the only planes going anywhere, that were also taking passengers. German planes left empty.
All rules/regulations were not cancelled, that's not to say all were observed in full.
I've not claimed any information here is "unconditionally" truthful. Don't try to put words in my mouth.
You took information that seemingly was correct as far as it goes and then extrapolated it to a degree unwarranted by the known facts. So that what you said became a half-truth. A non-sequitur. Seems you also did it for political purposes. These are the tactics of..........
So you've now quoted the same text I did, and then announced that I had quoted the same text as you.
People can see thru that (I hope). Either way, you're losing the plot.
The US citizens were put on the same planes as the refugees because those were mostly the only planes going anywhere, that were also taking passengers. German planes left empty.
All rules/regulations were not cancelled, that's not to say all were observed in full.
Tell me more about it - what exactly was "observed" and what was not "observed in full, " since I am "losing a plot."
Because this is what I know.
"In theory, at least, any Afghans admitted to the airport in Kabul would be Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) applicants who already completed initial stages of the vetting process. However, CNN reported thousands of Afghans with no documentation made it onto the airport grounds early in the evacuation, and there were no plans to kick them out. The CNN report also cited a source stating SIV applicants were issued electronic visas without names on them, and some Afghans who were not eligible presented screenshots of those visas to access the airport. Still, Biden administration officials maintained anyone who reaches the United States after evacuating Kabul will have been thoroughly vetted either in Afghanistan or in a third country."
"U.S. officials have committed to evacuating as many Afghans eligible for SIVs as possible, but they only have one week left until a full military withdrawal is scheduled to be completed."
One week!
So tell me again what were those regulations that "were not observed in full" under these circumstances?
So in spite of all these Biden's claims that they were "thoroughly vetted," how do you *vet* people that arrive in the US with no papers AT ALL ( which many did,) not to mention that vetting people from that part of the world is highly difficult ( if impossible) process?
"SIV applicants undergo a multistep vetting process that includes providing documentation of employment and letters of recommendation, as well as in-person interviews and medical exams. That process typically takes months or years, but the Biden administration has attempted to accelerate the program by dedicating more resources to security checks.
“What we did when we came in was move as rapidly as possible to process as many applications as possible, as fast as possible, trimming months and months and months off of that process, working with Congress to get them to actually change the law over the summer to relax the requirements so we could move people forward,†Sullivan said at a White House briefing Monday."
Are you getting a better picture now, why I am concerned looking at the gradual disappearance of the "thoroughly-vetted American citizens of Afgahnistan," that *somehow ended up in the refugee camps on the military bases?*
Quote:
I've not claimed any information here is "unconditionally" truthful. Don't try to put words in my mouth.
But you are accusing me of "half-truths," while quoting these half-truths yourself, as the counter-argument.
Quote:
You took information that seemingly was correct as far as it goes and then extrapolated it to a degree unwarranted by the known facts. So that what you said became a half-truth. A non-sequitur. Seems you also did it for political purposes. These are the tactics of..........
There are NO POLITICAL PURPOSES on my mind at this point.
I used to feel safe in the part of the country I am in, ( which is part of the mid-west.)
But not any longer, with the kind of people they shipped over here in a bunch ( which is the middle-easterners.)
And these people ended up here precisely because of the ineptness and incompetence of the current government, their retarded actions in Afghanistan. I can repeat it again, because I was watching step by step what took place over there.
YOU might not understand what this is all about ( or pretend that you don't,) but I do.
More so than you, because I am a woman, and obviously my outlook on the middle easterners is different from yours.
Tell me more about it - what exactly was "observed" and what was not "observed in full, " since I am "losing a plot."
Because this is what I know.
"In theory, at least, any Afghans admitted to the airport in Kabul would be Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) applicants who already completed initial stages of the vetting process. However, CNN reported thousands of Afghans with no documentation made it onto the airport grounds early in the evacuation, and there were no plans to kick them out. The CNN report also cited a source stating SIV applicants were issued electronic visas without names on them, and some Afghans who were not eligible presented screenshots of those visas to access the airport. Still, Biden administration officials maintained anyone who reaches the United States after evacuating Kabul will have been thoroughly vetted either in Afghanistan or in a third country."
"U.S. officials have committed to evacuating as many Afghans eligible for SIVs as possible, but they only have one week left until a full military withdrawal is scheduled to be completed."
One week!
So tell me again what were those regulations that "were not observed in full" under these circumstances?
So in spite of all these Biden's claims that they were "thoroughly vetted," how do you *vet* people that arrive in the US with no papers AT ALL ( which many did,) not to mention that vetting people from that part of the world is highly difficult ( if impossible) process?
"SIV applicants undergo a multistep vetting process that includes providing documentation of employment and letters of recommendation, as well as in-person interviews and medical exams. That process typically takes months or years, but the Biden administration has attempted to accelerate the program by dedicating more resources to security checks.
“What we did when we came in was move as rapidly as possible to process as many applications as possible, as fast as possible, trimming months and months and months off of that process, working with Congress to get them to actually change the law over the summer to relax the requirements so we could move people forward,†Sullivan said at a White House briefing Monday."
Are you getting a better picture now, why I am concerned looking at the gradual disappearance of the "thoroughly-vetted American citizens of Afgahnistan," that *somehow ended up in the refugee camps on the military bases?*
But you are accusing me of "half-truths," while quoting these half-truths yourself, as the counter-argument.
There are NO POLITICAL PURPOSES on my mind at this point.
I used to feel safe in the part of the country I am in, ( which is part of the mid-west.)
But not any longer, with the kind of people they shipped over here in a bunch ( which is the middle-easterners.)
And these people ended up here precisely because of the ineptness and incompetence of the current government, their retarded actions in Afghanistan. I can repeat it again, because I was watching step by step what took place over there.
YOU might not understand what this is all about ( or pretend that you don't,) but I do.
More so than you, because I am a woman, and obviously my outlook on the middle easterners is different from yours.
Unlike you, I've made no claim that all rules were either fully observed or canceled.
If, as you say, all rules/regulations had been canceled, it would simply have been a free for all, and that would not have gone unnoticed and unreported by the press. Can you find me such a reported claim?
Nothing in the Fox news excerpt is inconsistent with a claim that all rules were not canceled. You're just throwing words at a wall, and hoping some will stick. If you're using half-truths, there's nothing wrong with me pointing that out.
It's entirely possible that some people without the correct papers made it on flights out of Kabul, and are now undergoing vetting in third countries. Do you have any evidence to support your claim that many people arrived in the US with no papers at all?
Remember there were no direct evacuee flights from Kabul to the US, all evacuees first went to third countries, and some may never make it to the US.
Many of your claims are much too conclusory given the limited knowledge we both have.
Unlike you, I've made no claim that all rules were either fully observed or canceled.
If, as you say, all rules/regulations had been canceled, it would simply have been a free for all, and that would not have gone unnoticed and unreported by the press. Can you find me such a reported claim?
All rules/regulations were not cancelled, they were simply BENT in order to meet the demands of Biden's administration (in order to accommodate their major screw ups)
And no, it was not "free for all" - it was a chaos in that airport, ( in Kabul in general,) and as the result of it, some people ( a lot of them actually) who were eligible ( and intended) for this evacuation, couldn't even make it to the airport, while others made it on the planes with no papers at all.
Quote:
Nothing in the Fox news excerpt is inconsistent with a claim that all rules were not canceled. You're just throwing words at a wall, and hoping some will stick. If you're using half-truths, there's nothing wrong with me pointing that out.
It's entirely possible that some people without the correct papers made it on flights out of Kabul, and are now undergoing vetting in third countries. Do you have any evidence to support your claim that many people arrived in the US with no papers at all?
"Some Afghans fleeing their home country have arrived in the United States without paperwork amid the rapid pace of evacuations, according to two sources familiar with the situation, prompting additional screening and causing long delays.There were Afghan nationals stuck at Washington Dulles International Airport -- where evacuation flights have landed -- over the weekend between eight and 12 hours, because of vetting challenges and lack of paperwork, while Customs and Border Protection officers sorted through how to handle the arrivals, one source said. The approach from the administration has been "get as many people on the plane as you can, and we'll sort out the (immigration visa) stuff later," the source added, pointing to the rush to get people out of Afghanistan after the US-backed government there collapsed. "Some people have landed with no documents whatsoever, creating a very challenging work environment for the officers," the source added.
All rules/regulations were not cancelled, they were simply BENT in order to meet the demands of Biden's administration (in order to accommodate their major screw ups)
And no, it was not "free for all" - it was a chaos in that airport, ( in Kabul in general,) and as the result of it, some people ( a lot of them actually) who were eligible ( and intended) for this evacuation, couldn't even make it to the airport, while others made it on the planes with no papers at all.
"Some Afghans fleeing their home country have arrived in the United States without paperwork amid the rapid pace of evacuations, according to two sources familiar with the situation, prompting additional screening and causing long delays.There were Afghan nationals stuck at Washington Dulles International Airport -- where evacuation flights have landed -- over the weekend between eight and 12 hours, because of vetting challenges and lack of paperwork, while Customs and Border Protection officers sorted through how to handle the arrivals, one source said. The approach from the administration has been "get as many people on the plane as you can, and we'll sort out the (immigration visa) stuff later," the source added, pointing to the rush to get people out of Afghanistan after the US-backed government there collapsed. "Some people have landed with no documents whatsoever, creating a very challenging work environment for the officers," the source added.
Read above, and then get back to my "much too conclusory."
The remainder of that CNN piece you linked above, that you didn't quote, makes clear that there were alternative methods such as biometric data to vet people with partial or no paperwork.
Quote:
Even with missing paperwork, Customs and Border Protection has ways to identify people, but given the rush of evacuations, the source familiar said, "it's just a math game. The sheer numbers of people" make the possibility of slipping through the cracks "higher and higher."
Special Immigrant Visa applicants and "other vulnerable Afghans" are being flown to countries in Europe and Asia that have agreed to serve as transit hubs before flying to the US.
The Pentagon said Wednesday that of the approximately 7,000 evacuees from Afghanistan who have been processed in Europe before they are transported to the US, 52 have been flagged for further security screening but all have subsequently been cleared.
"Upon subsequent, more in-depth screening, all of those have been cleared," Gen. Tod Wolters, the commander of US European Command, said to reporters at the Pentagon. "We feel that we have a very good process in place that is DOD-centric, as well as State Department-centric with DHS."
As I said at the outset, you're using selective quotes and half-truths in an attempt to distort reality.
And I have to say I'm not particularly surprised.
The remainder of that CNN piece you linked above, that you didn't quote, makes clear that there were alternative methods such as biometric data to vet people with partial or no paperwork.
What "biometric data?"
You'd have "biometric data" to go by, if it was collected from a person EARLIER to confirm his identity.
Are you telling me that all Afghans submitted it somewhere to someone in Afghanistan, and now US custom service has access to this data in order to confirm that the person is who he claims he is?!
What are you ( or the article authors) are even talking about, while bringing the "biometric data" as a way of confirming one's identity?
In fact the Afghans that worked for Americans/Western allies were the ones that provided their biometric data, and it was carelessly left behind for the Taliban to explore, after the Westerners left.
So if anyone now has the access to the biometric data of the Afghans that worked for Americans for real, it's the Taliban, not the US customs)))
So at this point they can collect biometric data in US only for future reference.
Quote:
As I said at the outset, you're using selective quotes and half-truths in an attempt to distort reality.
And I have to say I'm not particularly surprised.
Here, I can add more quotes for you from the same source;
"Even with missing paperwork, Customs and Border Protection has ways to identify people, but given the rush of evacuations, the source familiar said, "it's just a math game. The sheer numbers of people" make the possibility of slipping through the cracks "higher and higher."
There are about 13, 000 of them at Fort McCoy, while you are talking about some 7,000 somewhere "in Europe and other places."
See the *math game* now?
And then, look here;
"There are three categories of evacuees: American citizens and lawful permanent residents (green card holders), Special Immigrant Visa applicants and their families, and other vulnerable Afghans who have been identified, according to the official. After arriving in the US, evacuees are tested for Covid-19 at the airport. American citizens and green card holders can continue to their destinations, while others head to military bases around the US, the official said"
And that's the part I wondered about, why would American citizens end up with the refugees on the military bases.
They didn't.
So it's not the "American citizens" and "green card holders" that disappear from the military bases, as you were trying to imply.
Sorry that you apparently don't know how to pinpoint the most important information in the articles, cutting through the "white noise."
And I have to say I'm not particularly surprised.
You'd have "biometric data" to go by, if it was collected from a person EARLIER to confirm his identity.
Are you telling me that all Afghans submitted it somewhere to someone in Afghanistan, and now US custom service has access to this data in order to confirm that the person is who he claims he is?!
What are you ( or the article authors) are even talking about, while bringing the "biometric data" as a way of confirming one's identity?
In fact the Afghans that worked for Americans/Western allies were the ones that provided their biometric data, and it was carelessly left behind for the Taliban to explore, after the Westerners left.
So if anyone now has the access to the biometric data of the Afghans that worked for Americans for real, it's the Taliban, not the US customs)))
So at this point they can collect biometric data in US only for future reference.
Here, I can add more quotes for you from the same source;
"Even with missing paperwork, Customs and Border Protection has ways to identify people, but given the rush of evacuations, the source familiar said, "it's just a math game. The sheer numbers of people" make the possibility of slipping through the cracks "higher and higher."
There are about 13, 000 of them at Fort McCoy, while you are talking about some 7,000 somewhere "in Europe and other places."
See the *math game* now?
And then, look here;
"There are three categories of evacuees: American citizens and lawful permanent residents (green card holders), Special Immigrant Visa applicants and their families, and other vulnerable Afghans who have been identified, according to the official. After arriving in the US, evacuees are tested for Covid-19 at the airport. American citizens and green card holders can continue to their destinations, while others head to military bases around the US, the official said"
And that's the part I wondered about, why would American citizens end up with the refugees on the military bases.
They didn't.
So it's not the "American citizens" and "green card holders" that disappear from the military bases, as you were trying to imply.
Sorry that you apparently don't know how to pinpoint the most important information in the articles, cutting through the "white noise."
And I have to say I'm not particularly surprised.
This biometric data, again from the CNN article you linked to.
Quote:
Before boarding planes to the US, individuals undergo robust security checks that involve biometric and biographic screening conducted by US intelligence, law enforcement and counterterrorism professionals, a senior administration official said Tuesday.
If you don't understand that biometric data is transferred via computer files then.......
I'm done with this time wasting.....
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