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Still, it's a good motivation to work hard, be productive and aim for a Nobel Prize medal in order to be able to pay for your medical bills. In Europe it's just too easy sometimes to sit back and let society pay for everything, not just for healthcare but for welfare as well.
To me the whole idea of "aiming for Nobel prize in physics" in order to pay for medical bills is so absurd, that even the Soviet idea of providing health care to everyone for free and then making everyone work sounds more reasonable.
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Germany actually has among the worst healthcare systems in Europe. Very high deductions from gross income to pay for old hospitals with long waiting periods for treatment. Or very high rates for private insurance with very high co-payments. There is no way the German system is sustainable with their ageing population and mass immigration from poor undeveloped countries with people who will never pay into but still benefit from healthcare and welfare.
I am definitely against this latest wave of immigration to Germany, but that's a already a whole different subject.
Back on topic. Having been twice in the US the past 8 years it is my impression that the poor in the US have it a lot worse than the poor in most European countries let alone the European Middle class.
Of course there are some poorer areas in eastern- and southern Europe but that goes for the US too.
To me it seemed that most poor, in the West USA at least, do own cars (have to), tv's and other luxury stuff, but live mostly in trailers because they can't afford a real house. We saw whole areas and parts of towns and cities that where built with only trailers while in Europe they at least live in good quality stone houses that which they get a subsidies for to be able to afford the rent.
We saw whole tent cities along the highways in some cities and were shocked about the amount of homeless people in the cities. It's been long time since I saw that in Europe. We had those situations but that's been at least 25 years ago.
Also, the lack of heathcare is shocking compared to EU. What shocked us the most, is that more than half of the homeless we saw were actually "normal" people like you and me who went off track due to whatever happend in their lives. I mean you see it in their faces when they're alcoholics or junkies but that was not the case for a lot of those people i think. Also a lot of vets.
Talking about American middle class who pay high fees for healthcare, and don't qualify for Obamacare etc etc I think it's the other way around and our poor might have it a lot better than the lower middle class Americans in some cases.
Back on topic. Having been twice in the US the past 8 years it is my impression that the poor in the US have it a lot worse than the poor in most European countries let alone the European Middle class.
True. The US has a higher absolute poverty rate (aka population living below US poverty line) than all Western European countries (except Southern Europe), Australia, and Canada. The Netherlands has the least poverty, followed by Scandinavia.
Back on topic. Having been twice in the US the past 8 years it is my impression that the poor in the US have it a lot worse than the poor in most European countries let alone the European Middle class.
Of course there are some poorer areas in eastern- and southern Europe but that goes for the US too.
To me it seemed that most poor, in the West USA at least, do own cars (have to), tv's and other luxury stuff, but live mostly in trailers because they can't afford a real house. We saw whole areas and parts of towns and cities that where built with only trailers while in Europe they at least live in good quality stone houses that which they get a subsidies for to be able to afford the rent.
We saw whole tent cities along the highways in some cities and were shocked about the amount of homeless people in the cities. It's been long time since I saw that in Europe. We had those situations but that's been at least 25 years ago.
Also, the lack of heathcare is shocking compared to EU. What shocked us the most, is that more than half of the homeless we saw were actually "normal" people like you and me who went off track due to whatever happend in their lives. I mean you see it in their faces when they're alcoholics or junkies but that was not the case for a lot of those people i think. Also a lot of vets.
Talking about American middle class who pay high fees for healthcare, and don't qualify for Obamacare etc etc I think it's the other way around and our poor might have it a lot better than the lower middle class Americans in some cases.
Where did you see tent cities and trailer parks? We lived in eight US states - trailer parks and individual trailers are restricted by municipality ordnance. So is vagrancy and it is being enforced unless you are in LA or further up the coast. How do you identify someone as US Military Vet while driving along as tourist?
True. The US has a higher absolute poverty rate (aka population living below US poverty line) than all Western European countries (except Southern Europe), Australia, and Canada. The Netherlands has the least poverty, followed by Scandinavia.
That comes at a price (obviously). Someone has to pay for keeping poor people off the streets, their welfare, their healthcare, and their subsidized housing. Not surprisingly the middle class is paying for that with the result that the middle class is almost as poor as the poor. They even invented a name for this phenomena in the Netherlands: it is called 'nivellering'.
That comes at a price (obviously). Someone has to pay for keeping poor people off the streets, their welfare, their healthcare, and their subsidized housing. Not surprisingly the middle class is paying for that with the result that the middle class is almost as poor as the poor. They even invented a name for this phenomena in the Netherlands: it is called 'nivellering'.
Or you can say that the poor is almost as middle class as the middle class, which is more in line with what one would observe in NL.
Where did you see tent cities and trailer parks? We lived in eight US states - trailer parks and individual trailers are restricted by municipality ordnance. So is vagrancy and it is being enforced unless you are in LA or further up the coast. How do you identify someone as US Military Vet while driving along as tourist?
Well for example when we drove from downtown Salt Lake City up to the highway to the North heading for Idaho, I looked into a street paralel on the highway and saw rows of tents, cardboard boxes and other structures, and lots of homeless / shabby figures walking around for as far i could see.
Other example, Rapid City, South Dakota, lots and lots of living blocks existing of shabby half broken trailer homes that looked so bad it wouldn't even be alowed in one of our camping sites.
Walking through downtown Denver, Colorado (which is actually a real nice center) there where homeless people begging for money like every 20 meters. On the edge of the center, it was like we passed an invisible border and entered junkie town. We were looking at a statue and a fountain near a park and suddenly were surrounded with Junkies and dealers. So we crossed the street, where was a park and saw groups of junkies everywere. We turned around and went back the way we came.
I Identify a militairy bum/homeless person, by the cardboard signs they had in front of them, while begging for money, saying VET.
It's not my intention of bashing the US. I love that country. But it's got some serious issues.
That comes at a price (obviously). Someone has to pay for keeping poor people off the streets, their welfare, their healthcare, and their subsidized housing. Not surprisingly the middle class is paying for that with the result that the middle class is almost as poor as the poor. They even invented a name for this phenomena in the Netherlands: it is called 'nivellering'.
This is true. It comes at a cost. But, looking at how big the gap between poor and rich is in other countries (not only the US) and the severe crime that goes along with that, I'm not so sure this is a bad thing. Although it can be pretty annoying at some times
This is true. It comes at a cost. But, looking at how big the gap between poor and rich is in other countries (not only the US) and the severe crime that goes along with that, I'm not so sure this is a bad thing. Although it can be pretty annoying at some times
If it's true, though, that the middle class for some reason is bearing the brunt of the cost, that's an issue that should be addressed.
Or you can say that the poor is almost as middle class as the middle class, which is more in line with what one would observe in NL.
From an outsiders point of view I can understand that would be the observation and is mostly right. The numbers do show it. Although still some areas have it pretty bad. For middle class as wel as low class / poor. the NL is becoming a very expensive country to live in. We still have lots of foodbanks, just as some other countries.
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