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And what are you, or any objectors going to do about it? You can protest. As long as the ads are legal, they can exist. If the companies decide these are the ads they want to produce then they will continue to do so. You can certainly write to them and object.
"You can try to force censorship. It seems most people really don't mind these ads or you would have heard a lot more about it".
......and women are not protesting enough to affect their bottom line.
So, then aren't ones like yourself, lucky?
I have only responded to the question as many others have and did not say I have a solution to the problem. The frustration has been that apparently, nothing can be done about it, even if some have protested. There does exist documentaries and articles addressing this subject, something clearly someone like yourself would be unaware and unsupportive of. Typically, since sexist examples never negatively affects males (though not all, because some men are compassionate), it will not receive the degree of protest necessary for change.
There is no way of knowing how much protesting has occurred, but like much else, it is obviously fruitless to try, which is why some will not even bother sharing their disgust here or anywhere. Thanks to ones like you, half-naked bimbos, a rape scene or group sex scene has become an allowable way to advertise.
I have only responded to the question as many others have and did not say I have a solution to the problem. The frustration has been that apparently, nothing can be done about it, even if some have protested. There does exist documentaries and articles addressing this subject, something clearly someone like yourself would be unaware and unsupportive of. Typically, since sexist examples never negatively affects males (though not all, because some men are compassionate), it will not receive the degree of protest necessary for change.
There is no way of knowing how much protesting has occurred, but like much else, it is obviously fruitless to try, which is why some will not even bother sharing their disgust here or anywhere. Thanks to ones like you, half-naked bimbos, a rape scene or group sex scene has become an allowable way to advertise.
Yes, I agree. It's extremely frustrating. There is "nothing" to be done about it because many don't "understand" what the problem is.
I typed a long response to all of this...twice...and I deleted it. It's impossible to reason with impossible people...
Well ultimately, I never cared what other women did with their bodies. If they're around showing them off, they evidently don't feel shamed and objectified. So why should anyone else care. Some women complain about men watching strippers, saying it's demeaning toward women. Those women are the ones on stage getting naked for strangers. So, live and let live.
There are some standards on men as well. Many men are expected to be macho, strong, tough, make the good money. If you ever have a relationship where the woman called the shots, or handled most things, the guy would be called a wuss. We hear the term housewife, and while a wife that doesn't work may be rare, it still happens and many probably don't think much of it. A house husband however, will probably catch more hell. lol Women still living at home past 18 isn't too damning. But a grown man that still lives at home may catch more hell as a mama's boy or mooch.
So many women are expected to be sexy and alluring or a good homemaker. Men are expected to be take-charge, and tough and a protector. In many cases.
If they're around showing them off, they evidently don't feel shamed and objectified. So why should anyone else care. Some women complain about men watching strippers, saying it's demeaning toward women. Those women are the ones on stage getting naked for strangers. So, live and let live.
There are some standards on men as well. Many men are expected to be macho, strong, tough, make the good money. If you ever have a relationship where the woman called the shots, or handled most things, the guy would be called a wuss. We hear the term housewife, and while a wife that doesn't work may be rare, it still happens and many probably don't think much of it. A house husband however, will probably catch more hell. lol Women still living at home past 18 isn't too damning. But a grown man that still lives at home may catch more hell as a mama's boy or mooch.
So many women are expected to be sexy and alluring or a good homemaker. Men are expected to be take-charge, and tough and a protector. In many cases.
Well, that is not what the topic was addressing, however, since you brought it up, NONE of it is appropriate or acceptable. Just as the Obectifying of women / sexism is wrong, the attitudes by some still harping on others as being "feminine", "a weakling", not making enough money or being a househusband, are equally WRONG. So, whose fault is that?
It is a certain personality that projects this standard, the same type that is likely against the LGBT community, with wives of this type going along with it. This mentality is who is responsible for a lot of problems and by passing it down, perpetuates such, including bullying, racism. THAT is what is wrong, due to some guys teaching their family that "macho" matters and in until it ceases being taught, it will continue. I say, men need to nip this in the bud..to say NO to this. How will it end if not setting better standards? But, nobody wants to begin a movement I'm sure, fearing they will be criticized, themselves. So, it continues, with complaints about it, but people need to stop it...just as double-standards, women casually being viewed as sex objects, needs to end. This is all viewed as if the origin is from some mysterious place, but it is caused by and is perpetuated by people .. right here, right now.
You say, women presenting themselves to be objectified "choose to be there, so big deal". It has been acknowledged that victims of sexual abuse, poverty, dysfunction, who are runaways with no self-esteem who see only this way to create an income, are typically those who engage in being strippers, hookers, playmates, sexual models and porn stars. I doubt if they think highly of themselves and again, are used to being mistreated. (Yet, this look is utilized as what to emulate, for men).
This is not about those who choose to be used in this way, but what has been discussed is, TV ads that are unnecessarily sexualized to sell burgers, print ads of a rape scene or an orgy to sell products. Similarly, video games depicting violence against women, setting negative examples.. but why should you care?
Well, that is not what the topic was addressing, however, since you brought it up, NONE of it is appropriate or acceptable. Just as the Obectifying of women / sexism is wrong, the attitudes by some still harping on others as being "feminine", "a weakling", not making enough money or being a househusband, are equally WRONG. So, whose fault is that?
It is a certain personality that projects this standard, the same type that is likely against the LGBT community, with wives of this type going along with it. This mentality is who is responsible for a lot of problems and by passing it down, perpetuates such, including bullying, racism. THAT is what is wrong, due to some guys teaching their family that "macho" matters and in until it ceases being taught, it will continue. I say, men need to nip this in the bud..to say NO to this. How will it end if not setting better standards? But, nobody wants to begin a movement I'm sure, fearing they will be criticized, themselves. So, it continues, with complaints about it, but people need to stop it...just as double-standards, women casually being viewed as sex objects, needs to end. This is all viewed as if the origin is from some mysterious place, but it is caused by and is perpetuated by people .. right here, right now.
You say, women presenting themselves to be objectified "choose to be there, so big deal". It has been acknowledged that victims of sexual abuse, poverty, dysfunction, who are runaways with no self-esteem who see only this way to create an income, are typically those who engage in being strippers, hookers, playmates, sexual models and porn stars. I doubt if they think highly of themselves and again, are used to being mistreated. (Yet, this look is utilized as what to emulate, for men).
This is not about those who choose to be used in this way, but what has been discussed is, TV ads that are unnecessarily sexualized to sell burgers, print ads of a rape scene or an orgy to sell products. Similarly, video games depicting violence against women, setting negative examples.. but why should you care?
The OP actually was talking about that. SO that's what I was addressing. The women personally who are doing the advertising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissLadyLexi25
Ok I think a lot of people here are not understanding what I am trying convey here. Maybe it's because I spent a summer living Europe where I saw bare breasted women plastered on adds every where, but it sure made me think about why we Americans are so uptight human body and using the human body as an erotic symbol. What I meant by "objectification" are adds that use women who voluntedrily agreed to be those adds, I am not talking about women who viciously judged for their looks appearance rather then merit. That's a problem, but this completely different serperate issue that should be addressed in another thread. That is not the same thing as women who makes her own decision to allow herself to be "objectified."
This is mainly what I am talking about, no one forced Christine Mckinnely to star in that Carl's Jr. add, she did that on her own accord and she's beautiful so why not show it off? To me an add crosses the line of dehumanizations when the person in question is being abused or the person being exploited I some way. But it seems my definition of what objectifation is, is different from a lot of people I this thread. Examples would be helpful.
I just want to point out that the term "objectification" has to do with sexism toward females, so that is not exactly what you mean.
Your brother is being personally attacked and judged. Sadly, many are bullied, which is completely wrong to occur in any case and I feel for him and others. Bullying HAS to end, but there is not being enough done to stop it. This attitude overall seems to stem from those households who influence their children to "not be wimps", or to "not cry", "be a man", etc., so some kids end up picking on others. I detest that this has been projected upon males by some fathers (maybe some mothers) since males should be allowed to express emotion and not be projected upon to "be tough". I would have never done that myself and some parents do not, but it is a continual, societal issue, which has contributed to many problems (just like the topic, here).
Personally, I never minded guys who were of smaller stature, so it is not all women, but some are conditoned to like "oversize" males, for whatever reason. I've heard women say that they "like a big man, because it makes them feel smaller".. whatever. Maybe they grew up around hulking men..but in any case, it is wrong to judge others this way. (Likewise, I would be interested in someone short, who would choose to be with one even shorter than my 5' 3", because that made them feel manly, so again, it depends on where a person is coming from, how they have been influenced, etc.)
I hope your brother will be able to strengthen his self-esteem, through his talents or skills, that everyone possesses of some kind. Ignore those a___holes -- and females who are worth it will see him on his own merit. There are tons of men in this world who have made it, big time, despite their height - (Tom Cruise comes to mind). We kind of veered off there and I can be long-winded, but I am sensitive to others and I hate to see anyone struggling with anything.
Hey, no worries. He's got me by his side, and we try to help out each other. I have reasonably good looks and get hit on for it, but am suffering from unemployment. He is rich as heck, but gets shamed for looks and can't stand up. With brotherly love, we help out with each others problems.
There isn't an arbitrary double standard. This is the standard imposed on men by women. Reality proves that even in this day and age the fat bald guy can get hot chix if he is rich. If he is such a jerk that he can't get them via "romance", then he will just hire them.
It *is* much harder for a single earner in this day. 40 years ago it was easy for any guy to earn enough to support a family, even low skill jobs. Not anymore.
Women are every bit as much *down* on stay at home moms as men. Probably more so. It's the women's lib thing primarily. It certainly wasn't the guys who were urging women to get out of the house and pursue careers.
And it's imposed by women at least as much as men. Guys in general couldn't care less how much the women makes. I know I don't. I care that she is smart. I care that she is relaxed and thoughtful. If her "life" makes her busy and scattered, that is a huge liability. I would *only* want to have kids if my wife was eager and willing to stay home and care for them, at least most of the time. Pursuing a career isn't compatible with that.
Sexual attraction is super important. For guys a lot of this is physical appearance and how well the woman takes care of herself. For me, I don't care for makeup and fancy hair or clothes at all, but I do want them to be fit.
Sexual attraction is important for relationships between individuals. Not whether it not you get a job, succeed at work or daily life. This is the problem.
Just as the Obectifying of women / sexism is wrong, the attitudes by some still harping on others as being "feminine", "a weakling", not making enough money or being a househusband, are equally WRONG. So, whose fault is that?
It is a certain personality that projects this standard, the same type that is likely against the LGBT community, with wives of this type going along with it.
It occurred to me that *your* attitude is very similar in some ways to the ones who are against LGBT, or anything they deem unacceptable in society.
I grew up in a fundamental christian community, where having that "right" ideas and doing things the "right" way, and imposing your standard on anyone you can, are what life is all about. No tolerance. Lots of condemnation. Lots of righteous indignation about what is wrong with the world. Take it a bit further and you have the Muslim extremists.
Though your ideas are not the same on many topics, you are both intolerant, and they would stand right beside you on a campaign to get rid of sex in advertising.
I'm more in the live and let live camp. Freedom. I believe it's healthy to let people choose how they live. It's all pretty much ok so long as they aren't imposing their standards on others or interfering with someone else's freedom. Take the world as it is. Acceptance. Empathy. Compassion. Rather than anger and indignation.
The objectification of women is so pervasive in our DNA that it's apparently a highly effective way to advertise to both genders. I'd like the world better if that wasn't the case, but I don't get the world I want, I get this one. If it was impossible for me to avoid these ads I'd have a bigger beef, because then it would be a major imposition on *my* freedom. But it's actually easy to avoid them. It's easy for *anybody* to do it. You can massively reduce the piped in mind-f**k of all kinds by ditching the TV. And just like the gay couple next door, "knowing that they exist" is not an imposition on *my* life.
We don't need to impose our standards on others. There is a lot in our society that appeals to the lowest denominator. But no one is forcing you or anyone else to go along with it.
Sexual attraction is important for relationships between individuals. Not whether it not you get a job, succeed at work or daily life. This is the problem.
How can you believe that women need to acheive some high appearance standard for these things? There are more women working now than men, and they have lower unemployment. This could only be true if it was at most a minor factor for most jobs.
I don't know about the Roman's but the Greeks were into homosex to a significant degreee. They definitely revered a strong and toned male body, and prowess as a warrior. It was a very important part of their male pecking order, unlike now when any fat weak guy can be the alfa male if he has enough money. They were also big on athletics (hence the Olympics).
That is also true, the Romans were a bit weird about homosexual relationships. It was ok as long as you were the dominant one or something weird like that.
Anyways I think people are misinterpreting what I am saying. I am not talking about cases where the women in question is being somehow forced/coerced into said things I am talking about. I am well aware that is a huge problem, but that is NOT what I am talking about. I am talking about instances where women VOLUNTEERILY choose to take part in ads that showcase them in an erotic manner. No one is forcing those models pose for playboy or sport illustration as far as I am concerned they are doing it because they want to. If you are confident enough to show it off, then why not show it off?
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