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Sounds somewhat like the Phoenix area - only smaller, friendlier, and prettier, with 4 seasons.
Phoenix USED to be the friendliest place ever. Now that we have a city of strangers, it's not friendly anymore. Could everyone who has moved here in the last 10 years please go home? *smile*
$200 a month for a water bill is rather astounding for Flagstaff; but it's not too unusual for Phoenix. Try to add a little comfort here with grass and shade trees - forget it! The water rates alone are expensive; but everyone else is switching to rock lawns, which actually make the environment hotter!
I agree and it's a real shame. Thank goodness for the greenbelt in Scottsdale! I've seen so many new homes being built and they are all brown, dusty (dirty) and sad looking. The houses themselves can be quite beautiful and the mountains are pretty (from a distance) but Phoenix has sprawled into an endless sea of nothingness. When we got here Phoenix was barely on the radar. Now, all these people, bringing with them their attitudes and crime. We don't have an aquarium, or major museums (however the science one is pretty good) no amusement parks, no camping near the lakes (the reservoirs don't count) no big water parks. It's like this city is thinking ONLY of the adults.
We have great shopping, tons of franchise restaurants, and beautiful resorts and golf courses. But our schools suck (except a few - my kids schools are in North Scottsdale and are highly thought of, we love them!) there are no INDOOR gyms - like soccer fields and football fields - which our kids NEED - it's too hot out there for them to practice! Teachers can't live near the schools they teach, neither can cops or firemen. I have no idea why people keep moving here with kids... This is NOT a great place to raise children - HELLO!
Unless you have a ton of cash and can get out for the entire summer and travel during the year to expose your children to the "real world." (I would like to point out though, that many people from California find the transition easy because they are still so close to home, made a ton of money on the house they sold in CA, and still have family they can stay with in CA that helps with the cost of travel. However, people from the midwest or the east coast will have a much harder time of it.)
And travel to let them see things like, beaches, and rain, and parks, and rides, and lawn fetes and festivals (the fountain hills one doesn't count - it's the same thing every year and it's only one of what, 2 here in AZ? besides, I'm talking something more child oriented that doesn't cost a ton.)
The last thing on anyones mind are the children. A big home (however crappily made and dour the surroundings, nevermind the educationthey will receive will suck and their will be little for them to do) is what people here think is most important.
Nevermind that we have high drug use rates (not just within the Hispanic community!)high pregnancy rates, high sexually transmitted disease rates, poor reading, writing and math scores, highest rate of plastic surgery amongst teenagers, nearly guaranteed admission into U of A or ASU (yet our high schools are poorly rated as our universities - the few we have) yet they still can't seem to graduate anyone in less than 7 years.
When you have a hot weather area that causes girls to wear fewer clothes, middle school aged kids to drink and use drugs because of boredom, kids are not expected to work, and the schools are not expected to challenge kids, what do you think is going to happen to the next generation?
We have fought a long, hard battle to kid our kids on the straight and narrow and it was expensive to do. Unfortunately, we are going to want to move to an area that is smaller in size, less transient and has more to do that doesn't cost and arm and a leg. Just because we can afford to do everything I mentioned, does't mean I think it's worth it.... I'd rather move to a family friendly place that is colder, then deal with the ever growing problems of what used to be my favorite place on earth.
That's nothing. Try living in California. The home you described couldn't be purchased for less than $600grand almost anywhere in Cali. A house is an investment, and $78,000 these days is dirt-cheap; so you really get what you pay for.
On the other hand, if you believe the real-estate market will become more expensive in Spokane, now is the best time to buy.
Housing is dropping in the cheap areas that are FAAAAAAR away from the center core and where nothing is located (except *more* big box stores - once again shopping seems to be what people consider more important than their kids)
Houses have not dropped in the safer, closer areas with better schools. (Say Scottsdale, Fountain Hills) The price range 450K to 600K or more is still doing well. True, you don't get a lot for your money here, but at least you won't get shot at.
There are SO MANY people defaulting on loans in the out lying areas in cheaper housing because they sold these houses to people who wouldn't normally be able to buy one in the first place. How many people making 15 grand a year asa waitress or in retail can afford a 150K house? But that's what happened. It sucks. So now we have all these foreclosures that *more* slumlords are buying up so they can rent them out and make a profit. It wouldn't surprise me if those slumlords are the same people who were the *speculators* two years ago.
Just my two cents.
but the wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. Much of that can be attributed to the illegal Mexican-invasion, and the shady companies that will hire them.
Also, there's a serious shortage of established corporate headquarters in Arizona. Many companies are either fly-by-night, or satellite offices of larger companies here for the cheap labor.
What kills me is the same people complaining about the illegals are the same ones who EMPLOY them to cut their lawns, clean their houses and clean their pools. No one complains about the service at fast food restaurants when we all know most of them are here illegally. What a novel idea to have people actually clean their own crap up and cut their own lawns (or blow the dust off their rocks ) and how about telling our kids that they actually have to work for those 300 dollar jeans they want so badly? I have never seen so much excess with kids other than in the very most affluent cities in the states - it's "normal" here in Phoenix. (Must be a california thing) Geez.........
ANd yes, we have very few high paying, executive level jobs. We don't have the industry to support it. No new Fortune 500 hundred companies have moved into the area, nor will they. Our standard of living is not what attracts highly educated and well paid people to the area. The area lacks too many things. I think the weather (too hot for too long), lack of family activites, and the poorly rated schools are a major factor in those decisions.
New (albeit cheap and poorly manufactured) homes with a bunch of big box stores does not an economy make. Well maybe it does, but it is a lower blue collar economy. All those fantastic new condos going up in downtown Scottsdale and in other areas? They are being bought by people who have NO INTENTION of ever living here full time! That's why people are miserable here, no one cares to get to know people they will only see once in a while. Unfortunately, Phoenix is quickly becoming the land of the haves and the have-nots. And there are many, many more have nots than anything else. It's truly sad what has happened to my once beloved Arizona.
Last edited by londonbarcelona; 10-23-2007 at 09:47 AM..
I lived in Flag for 1 year and then got the hell out.
The locals call it "poverty with a view".
I come from Pittsburgh and winters there are worse with almost no road maintenance.
Also got tired of mexican illegal immigrants trying to rob me.
That's not fair as Pittsburgh gets barely any snow to begin with anyway. It's warm up until January with January and February being the most snowy. If you can call 2 inches of snow a "storm."
We are in escrow on a town home in Flagstaff that we are buying for investment. I live in San Diego. My son may or may not go to NAU next year but we already have renters lined up for this fall. We are buying for $325,000 a brand new 3 bedroom, 3.5 bath 1,600 sq.ft. town home (each bed has a bath...perfect for student roommates). The money is coming from an investment we made in CA 5 years ago so we have $100K down. Right now, an investment in CA doesn't make sense because our property taxes are so high (1% of the new purchase price). That would be $3,250/year in CA and in AZ it's only about $1,500. Our total payments, including the mortgage, taxes, insurance, HOA is about $1,450 and we can rent for $1,600. I'm trying to do all the research I can on Flagstaff because I've only been there once. I've read a lot of negative comments in this forum and some doomsday predictions. Any insight is appreciated.
you'll be fine. You'll be another slumlord, but hey, you won't lose any money.....
What "other place" does one go? Every desirable town I've looked at seems to have undesirable real estate prices. The only places where it's cheap to live now is in the midwest and the south, and I'm not sure I'd fit into those areas. Where do we go?
Oh my god, how about someplace where it's COLD?? I can't believe we are that whimpy of a society to "have" to have warm weather all the time. Now I feel like a fool. I need to get to some cold weather soon to bring me back to my senses..... *smile*
What kills me is the same people complaining about the illegals are the same ones who EMPLOY them to cut their lawns, clean their houses and clean their pools. No one complains about the service at fast food restaurants when we all know most of them are here illegally. What a novel idea to have people actually clean their own crap up and cut their own lawns (or blow the dust off their rocks ) and how about telling our kids that they actually have to work for those 300 dollar jeans they want so badly? I have never seen so much excess with kids other than in the very most affluent cities in the states - it's "normal" here in Phoenix. (Must be a california thing) Geez.........
ANd yes, we have very few high paying, executive level jobs. We don't have the industry to support it. No new Fortune 500 hundred companies have moved into the area, nor will they. Our standard of living is not what attracts highly educated and well paid people to the area. The area lacks too many things. I think the weather (too hot for too long), lack of family activites, and the poorly rated schools are a major factor in those decisions.
New (albeit cheap and poorly manufactured) homes with a bunch of big box stores does not an economy make. Well maybe it does, but it is a lower blue collar economy. All those fantastic new condos going up in downtown Scottsdale and in other areas? They are being bought by people who have NO INTENTION of ever living here full time! That's why people are miserable here, no one cares to get to know people they will only see once in a while. Unfortunately, Phoenix is quickly becoming the land of the haves and the have-nots. And there are many, many more have nots than anything else. It's truly sad what has happened to my once beloved Arizona.
OOPS! Sorry about the rant - I forgot we were talking about Flagstaff!
No way, they will never drop. Flagstaff has ALWAYS been expensive. It was the first place people from Phoenix escaped to. Prescott is the "new" Flagstaff with wealthier second home buyers. But Flagstaff is still expensive. I have no clue why, it's a very run down ugly town. Prescott is much nicer.
I don't think it's ugly at all. But I love old buildings, especially when they're in old mining towns. I don't think it was always expensive, though having a decent sized university in a small city might be part of the issue. But also urban growth boundaries, which I wish Phoenix would adopt, even though I voted no on the Sierra Club prop proposing boundaries (they wanted too much too fast, so it was doomed to fail. Sometimes I wish environmentalists would be a little more moderate so that there's actually chance to get everyone in agreement). But yes, urban growth boundaries do increase real estate value.
I don't think it's ugly at all. But I love old buildings, especially when they're in old mining towns. I don't think it was always expensive, though having a decent sized university in a small city might be part of the issue. But also urban growth boundaries, which I wish Phoenix would adopt, even though I voted no on the Sierra Club prop proposing boundaries (they wanted too much too fast, so it was doomed to fail. Sometimes I wish environmentalists would be a little more moderate so that there's actually chance to get everyone in agreement). But yes, urban growth boundaries do increase real estate value.
There is truth to that. Sorry, I should have said, that not ALL of Flagstaff is ugly. (Kidding) I don't think it's ugly, just that it's so darn expensive for what there is. It's not *ugly* I take it back. But it's not as great as many people make it out to be...........
I love the Peaks and the area around Flagstaff, but I think the town itself leaves a lot to be desired. The job market stinks and real estate prices have gone through the roof. There's plenty of seedy areas and route 66 is mile after mile of flophouse motels and currency exchanges. I really don't see the appeal unless you have a million dollars to drop on a big house outside of town. If you're young and want to dirtbag it for a few years there are certainly nicer places to do it like Durango Colorado or Bend Oregon.
I love the Peaks and the area around Flagstaff, but I think the town itself leaves a lot to be desired. The job market stinks and real estate prices have gone through the roof. There's plenty of seedy areas and route 66 is mile after mile of flophouse motels and currency exchanges. I really don't see the appeal unless you have a million dollars to drop on a big house outside of town. If you're young and want to dirtbag it for a few years there are certainly nicer places to do it like Durango Colorado or Bend Oregon.
Damn Bill, where were you when I needed you?
I say what Bill said. *smile*
There is truth to that. Sorry, I should have said, that not ALL of Flagstaff is ugly. (Kidding) I don't think it's ugly, just that it's so darn expensive for what there is. It's not *ugly* I take it back. But it's not as great as many people make it out to be...........
You know, I've never lived there, though I kind of wanted to go to NAU instead of ASU (but had too many obligations and friends/family in Phoenix), but then I'm the type who likes to hang out in coffee shops on cold evenings, listening to some folk singer ranting about the state of the world on an acoustic guitar (or better yet, *be* the one singing while sipping my cuppa joe), then return to my campsite where I wake up the next morning to elk grazing in the field next to the forest where I pitched my tent, only to return to town to get some middle eastern or flavorful vegetarian food (used to be one). Yeah, I'm kind of a semi urban hippie, so Flag is great for me. Maybe it's a better place to visit than to live?
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) and how about telling our kids that they actually have to work for those 300 dollar jeans they want so badly? I have never seen so much excess with kids other than in the very most affluent cities in the states - it's "normal" here in Phoenix. (Must be a california thing) Geez.........
sorry about this!
I don't think it's ugly, 
just that it's so darn expensive for what there is. 
It's not *ugly* I take it back. But it's not as great as many people make it out to be...........
Billlllllllllllllllllllllllll
