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Old 04-29-2015, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
22,360 posts, read 9,502,077 times
Reputation: 18246

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebn78 View Post
A brutally honest and truthful list of negatives. As a 54 year old native I am extremely sad and annoyed about this. This is why I constantly post hypothetical requirements to newbies wanting to move to my once great home state. I feel so sad about Florida that I am contemplating moving to Montana. This is very saddening.
But newbies are not you and are not natives. You aren't giving them a list of objective opinions. You telling them about things that have changed and disappoint you--totally subjective. How can that be objective at all or remotely like what 'newbies' would think?

BTW--hope you've visited Montana--it's really boring.

 
Old 04-29-2015, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Fort Liquordale, Florida
242 posts, read 264,735 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
But newbies are not you and are not natives. You aren't giving them a list of objective opinions. You telling them about things that have changed and disappoint you--totally subjective. How can that be objective at all or remotely like what 'newbies' would think?
You are correct and I apologize. I am working hard to provide a more subjective neutral point of view, but it's hard because I feel sad about what is, and what has happened to Florida.
 
Old 04-29-2015, 08:12 PM
 
17,586 posts, read 10,656,824 times
Reputation: 8510
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebn78 View Post
You are correct and I apologize. I am working hard to provide a more subjective neutral point of view, but it's hard because I feel sad about what is, and what has happened to Florida.
It is every State, not just FL
 
Old 04-29-2015, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Fort Liquordale, Florida
242 posts, read 264,735 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It is every State, not just FL.
How do you know? Do YOU know every state in the union? Have you lived and owned a home in every U.S. state? That's like me commenting that every state sucks, which is completely untrue.

Last edited by ebn78; 04-29-2015 at 09:54 PM..
 
Old 04-30-2015, 06:33 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 36,468,334 times
Reputation: 20198
I don't post about hating Florida, but I really don't like Florida (since the OP asked).

What don't I like about it?

1 The topography (or lack thereof). A flat sandy swampland.
2 The weather. My arthritis and my lungs much prefer the desolate arid climes of the desert, thankyouverymuch.
3 The fact that the only place my husband wants to retire to, is the Villages, which is most assuredly as far-right Republican as a person can get, and I'm more socialist/democrat/libertarian-leaning (I refuse to register with any party on principal). Conversations would likely be "Oh wow the Republican party has finally announced their schedule and they're coming here next tuesday! What will you wear?" followed by me saying "Probably my bathingsuit. I'll be spending the day at the pool in blissful silence since I'll have it all to myself for a change."
4 The choice between red ants or the sweet stench of pesticides wafting through my window, the one day of the year that the weather is tolerable.
5 Lack of four seasons. (though I'll give them a 1/2 point for not having 4-foot snow storms)
6 Lack of drinkable tapwater. I thought water here in Connecticut was nasty - there are times in Florida where the officials warn the citizens not to drink the water that week, and you can fill empty gallon jugs with filtered water at supermarkets. And, the tap water smells bad. Like sulphur. People are so used to it, that they don't even notice. But visitors notice. I don't want to get used to it. It's nasty.
7 Traffic. People complain about Connecticut being home to lousy drivers - but let's put that into perspective: Many of those lousy Connecticut drivers get old, and move to Florida to retire. Then, they become lousy Connecticut drivers who are old, whose vision, hearing, and reflexes aren't nearly as good as when they were simply lousy Connecticut drivers. Multiply that by all the states where people complain about their drivers, all moving to Florida when they retire. You end up with a chaotic mess of old people with dented cars.

The good part of florida:

The Villages is beautiful. But I can't credit Florida for that, the Villages would be even more beautiful, in my personal opinion, if they moved it to Santa Fe NM.

There are a few weeks during the year that are really marvelous for relaxing outside (as long as you keep your feet covered to avoid the pesticides or the red ants).

Costs are low, perfect for northerners who retire, since people who live in Florida growing up have no hope of getting paid enough to afford living there. Our minimum wage is higher up north so we have a better shot at retirement affordability in Florida as long as we get social security and pensions.

Your landscaping *looks* gorgeous. Even though most of the plantlife isn't native. From a safe distance away from alligators, Florida appears beautiful.
 
Old 04-30-2015, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,266,490 times
Reputation: 6010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebn78 View Post
How do you know? Do YOU know every state in the union? Have you lived and owned a home in every U.S. state? That's like me commenting that every state sucks, which is completely untrue.
Go through the other state forums and you will find that there are people who hate where they live. There is no nirvana.

People who live in a place they hate usually have no choices in their lives which causes a horrible bitterness. Then u have those who's relocation didnt repair their problems and continue to relocate in an attempt to find the place that will.
 
Old 04-30-2015, 10:32 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 2,052,557 times
Reputation: 2543
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
Costs are low, perfect for northerners who retire, since people who live in Florida growing up have no hope of getting paid enough to afford living there. Our minimum wage is higher up north so we have a better shot at retirement affordability in Florida as long as we get social security and pensions.
You just described one of the biggest issues in Florida in your list of "pros."

Generally speaking, most people who grow up in Florida or who move there as young adults aren't all that ambitious and don't have very high educational and career-related aspirations to begin with. That's largely due to a warm, sunny climate coupled with a low-wage service-oriented economy that neither breeds nor attracts bright, talented, ambitious youth.

As someone who lived in Florida from ages 18-30, I found most young people in Florida to be more interested in their next trip to the beach or Walt Disney World than in educational pursuits or career advancement. It seemed like many were perfectly content working a $8-$12/hour job with limited non-wage benefits and opportunity for advancement.

That's perfectly fine, but when that type of culture and mindset prevails, corporations pick up on that and consciously choose NOT to set up shop in Florida. Because corporations will experience significant difficulty in sourcing local talent, they'll have to relocate many of their employees at great expense, which is not worth it for most.

In terms of educational attainment, Florida is roughly located in the third quintile, which is better than most other Southern states, but still lagging behind many Northeastern, Upper Midwestern, and Western states. It's also partly due to less emphasis on education overall, although Florida has been making significant strides in this department over the past decade or so.

Because so many people over the age of 65 live in/move to Florida, the population is inherently less educated, since educational attainment is lower among people age 65 and older than in younger generations. It's not necessarily that these people don't value education, it's simply that people in this age bracket had fewer opportunities to receive a higher education, not to mention there was less of a need for candidates with advanced degrees up until many of these folks were well-established in the workforce. That somewhat explains Florida's ranking.

Another issue with this demographic is lack of support for educational expenditures and investments. Many senior citizens move to Florida from high-cost areas of the country (and world) because property taxes among other costs are relatively low. Furthermore, many in this demographic cite that they've already "paid their dues" to the school district in whatever city/county up North they moved down from. Ugh.

Unfortunately, 65+ is the demographic that's best represented at the ballot box, not to mention this demographic has strong representation in state and local politics (more so than most states), so educational expenditures/investments often don't stand a chance if they come up for a vote. Since retirees/snowbirds are well-distributed geographically throughout Florida, this issue affects just about every community/school district in the state.

In conclusion, one should aspire to achieve more than a minimum-wage job and rely on social security and, perhaps, a small pension in retirement. For families with school-aged children moving to Florida, please--by all means--spend the extra money and send your children to private school. And don't bank on your kids staying in Florida if they're high academic achievers and/or with a "go-getter" personality because they'll probably end up elsewhere after college.
 
Old 04-30-2015, 11:15 AM
 
2,112 posts, read 2,096,562 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8to32characters View Post
Because so many people over the age of 65 live in/move to Florida, the population is inherently less educated, since educational attainment is lower among people age 65 and older than in younger generations.
This is changing very quickly. The early baby boomer retirees (55-65) that I have met in the past 2 years are highly educated with graduate and post graduate degrees. Might explain why they can afford to retire well before 65.
 
Old 04-30-2015, 12:22 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 1,064,812 times
Reputation: 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8to32characters View Post
You just described one of the biggest issues in Florida in your list of "pros."

Generally speaking, most people who grow up in Florida or who move there as young adults aren't all that ambitious and don't have very high educational and career-related aspirations to begin with. That's largely due to a warm, sunny climate coupled with a low-wage service-oriented economy that neither breeds nor attracts bright, talented, ambitious youth.

As someone who lived in Florida from ages 18-30, I found most young people in Florida to be more interested in their next trip to the beach or Walt Disney World than in educational pursuits or career advancement. It seemed like many were perfectly content working a $8-$12/hour job with limited non-wage benefits and opportunity for advancement.

That's perfectly fine, but when that type of culture and mindset prevails, corporations pick up on that and consciously choose NOT to set up shop in Florida. Because corporations will experience significant difficulty in sourcing local talent, they'll have to relocate many of their employees at great expense, which is not worth it for most.
Just wanted to expand slightly on the bold: This is true, particularly so as it pertains to quality, career-oriented occupations. Additionally, there is often an effort (via local government and their local business cronies) in non-metro areas to keep such jobs out even when businesses submit a proposal to set up shop.

The county I live in is frequently an example of the latter, whereupon closed-door meetings with commissioners consist of demonizing the poor and ways with which to stifle opportunity and upward mobility. Well-connected businesses regularly host private soirees attended by local elites and official top brass types that are replete with illicit activity and where those in attendance revel in hypocrisy. "Good old boy" syndrome is pervasive as it is disheartening.
 
Old 04-30-2015, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,266,490 times
Reputation: 6010
It amazes me that you are able to put so many individuals in your narrow minded view of who relocates to FL and their goals. Your extremely limited view is sickening.

FYI:

Florida is the 3rd largest state and the 18th largest economy in the world, if Florida were a country.

Florida is home to over 18,200 manufacturers employing more than 317,000 workers.

Florida is a premier aerospace and space location. 470+ industry companies from aircraft parts and assembly, to intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, to missiles. Florida also offers tremendous space launch assets.

Florida is the birthplace of commercial aviation and the air transport hub of the Western Hemisphere. We rank #1 among states for air transportation and flight training businesses. Florida is also home to the #1 U.S. airport for international air cargo.

Florida is home to some of the nation's most highly regarded research centers; over 1,000 biotech, pharmaceutical and medical devices companies; and a foundation of more than 45,000 healthcare establishments - including 700+ hospitals.

Florida is home to more than 250 biotech companies and world renowned R&D institutes specializing in therapeutics, diagnostics, industrial/ag biotech and other areas.

Florida boasts the #3 largest medical device manufacturing industry in the U.S.. Nearly 19,000 Floridians work in this industry, with a majority of companies located along the I-4 Corridor in Central Florida, the Jacksonville area, and in South Florida.

Florida’s 200+ pharmaceutical and medicine manufacturing companies. They employ nearly 4,500 researchers, engineers, technicians and workers.

Florida hosts 20 major military installations and 3 unified combat commands, and nearly all of the nation’s leading contractors tap into our tremendous industry base and large pool of skilled workers and veterans.

Florida is home to perhaps the world’s largest modeling, simulation and training (MST) clusters, with over 300 companies and 22,500 professionals. Florida companies are building simulation and training systems for the defense, medical, entertainment, education and other sectors.

Florida’s photonics cluster is among the largest in the United States, with some 270 companies employing nearly 5,800 professionals focused on the design, development, manufacturing, testing, and integration of photonics and related systems

Florida is one of the nation’s largest software and computer systems industries – with 12,600 firms employing 80,000+ industry professionals. Major areas of growth include gaming, medical, finance, defense/homeland security.

Florida’s microelectronics and computer products sector – made up of 700 companies and their 32,000 employees – produces a broad spectrum of equipment, from ubiquitous microprocessors and circuit boards to nano-sized devices and other technologies of the future.

Florida’s creative and tech industries develop some of the best video games, mobile applications, and other digital media technologies. There are some 4,200 industry companies in Florida, employing nearly 11,000 people.

Florida has become the nation’s Internet gateway to Latin America and Europe. Our telecom industry includes 6,800+ firms and 93,000 workers, with a high concentration of firms in web portal and Internet related development, and mobile technologies and equipment.

Logistics is big business in Florida, where the broader wholesale trade, transportation and logistics industry employs more than half a million Floridians. Nearly every major global logistics integrator already has a presence in the state, including the headquarters for Ryder System, Inc., Landstar System Inc., CEVA Logistics U.S., Inc. and other top logistics companies. As the Western Hemisphere's commercial gateway, Florida's logistics & distribution industry is poised to grow further with the Panama Canal expansion in 2016 and the numerous infrastructure developments and upgrades underway around the state.

Floridians are building a robust cleantech industry, with particular strength in energy, efficiency, and environmental technologies. Florida is already home to industry innovators from Mitsubishi Power Systems Americas, to Siemens Energy, to Saft.

Florida is home to industry leading producers of power generation systems, a variety of solar technology companies, biofuel producers, and battery and fuel cell manufacturers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 8to32characters View Post
You just described one of the biggest issues in Florida in your list of "pros."

Generally speaking, most people who grow up in Florida or who move there as young adults aren't all that ambitious and don't have very high educational and career-related aspirations to begin with. That's largely due to a warm, sunny climate coupled with a low-wage service-oriented economy that neither breeds nor attracts bright, talented, ambitious youth.

As someone who lived in Florida from ages 18-30, I found most young people in Florida to be more interested in their next trip to the beach or Walt Disney World than in educational pursuits or career advancement. It seemed like many were perfectly content working a $8-$12/hour job with limited non-wage benefits and opportunity for advancement.

That's perfectly fine, but when that type of culture and mindset prevails, corporations pick up on that and consciously choose NOT to set up shop in Florida. Because corporations will experience significant difficulty in sourcing local talent, they'll have to relocate many of their employees at great expense, which is not worth it for most.

In terms of educational attainment, Florida is roughly located in the third quintile, which is better than most other Southern states, but still lagging behind many Northeastern, Upper Midwestern, and Western states. It's also partly due to less emphasis on education overall, although Florida has been making significant strides in this department over the past decade or so.

Because so many people over the age of 65 live in/move to Florida, the population is inherently less educated, since educational attainment is lower among people age 65 and older than in younger generations. It's not necessarily that these people don't value education, it's simply that people in this age bracket had fewer opportunities to receive a higher education, not to mention there was less of a need for candidates with advanced degrees up until many of these folks were well-established in the workforce. That somewhat explains Florida's ranking.

Another issue with this demographic is lack of support for educational expenditures and investments. Many senior citizens move to Florida from high-cost areas of the country (and world) because property taxes among other costs are relatively low. Furthermore, many in this demographic cite that they've already "paid their dues" to the school district in whatever city/county up North they moved down from. Ugh.

Unfortunately, 65+ is the demographic that's best represented at the ballot box, not to mention this demographic has strong representation in state and local politics (more so than most states), so educational expenditures/investments often don't stand a chance if they come up for a vote. Since retirees/snowbirds are well-distributed geographically throughout Florida, this issue affects just about every community/school district in the state.

In conclusion, one should aspire to achieve more than a minimum-wage job and rely on social security and, perhaps, a small pension in retirement. For families with school-aged children moving to Florida, please--by all means--spend the extra money and send your children to private school. And don't bank on your kids staying in Florida if they're high academic achievers and/or with a "go-getter" personality because they'll probably end up elsewhere after college.
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