[psouth]

I am not saying things are great anywhere especially in Michigan and other manufacturing states. I'm just saying they have opportunities in other areas that Florida does not have. Also I know people from those states who are going back. They got sick of earning minimum wage in a store or restaurant in Florida with no future. There are even a lot more IT jobs in the midwest that Florida cannot compete with.

[Sunny-Days-in-Florida]

Originally Posted by psouth

It has been all over the national news that union contracts provide for a mandatory 2 years at 95% salary when auto workers lose their jobs. They also get to keep their benefits during this time. The companies have no choice in the matter. The program is called the Jobs Bank. I think they reduced it from 2 years down to 1 year now but whoopee. An absolutely ridiculous program for unskilled factory workers. Give me a break. Here is a link for further reading:

Automakers' Jobs Bank Program Pays Laid-Off Workers to Do Nothing - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/11/21/automakers-ask-bailout-paying-workers-sit/ - broken link)

The article also state the auto workers make an average of $72 per hour while the Japanese non union workers make $44 per hour. Many factory workers are making well over $100K with overtime. Not to mention when times were good they were getting an average of $20K bonuses. No industry can survive giving money away to unskilled workers like this.

How can anyone tout tourism jobs in Florida? This is what is holding people back in this state. Mostly crap tourism and labor jobs and no professional jobs with benefits. Any clue of what these tourism jobs pay? 5-star hotels are only paying $9 per hour. Call some of the resorts and you will see. Restaurants pay nothing. Stores pay nothing. There's tourism which is Florida's savior in a nutshell. That's why people are leaving and why uneducated immigrants are taking their place. They can survive on minimum wage tourism jobs since they can live 10 to a one bedroom apt.

Unskilled workers.... right.

Most of those jobs you have to take a test to get.

If the contract calls for them to get that then they deserve it. But what you do not understand is most of those people have worked the same job for 30-40 years to get that.

My Dad was a union worker and earned every penny he ever got for retirement.

So is it ok for the CEO of GM for make 4 million a year plus bonuses. CEO's are not skilled people are they? To run companies into the ground like they did they sure cannot be skilled.

I know many people who make over 100k per year and do not work on an assembly line.

So if your employer offers you a 100k per year for being unskilled you would turn it down?

[psouth]

Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90

Unskilled workers.... right.

Most of those jobs you have to take a test to get.

If the contract calls for them to get that then they deserve it. But what you do not understand is most of those people have worked the same job for 30-40 years to get that.

My Dad was a union worker and earned every penny he ever got for retirement.

So is it ok for the CEO of GM for make 4 million a year plus bonuses. CEO's are not skilled people are they? To run companies into the ground like they did they sure cannot be skilled.

I know many people who make over 100k per year and do not work on an assembly line.

So if your employer offers you a 100k per year for being unskilled you would turn it down?

Yes, auto workers are unskilled. That's a fact. They got these jobs right out of high school and passed them along from generation to generation. It was guaranteed employment. What kind of skills does it take to bolt on the same part car after car all day and night. We are not talking about a tool and die shop here or fabricating which takes years of training and precision machining. I am not saying these folks aren't intelligent and decent people but $72 per hour on an assembly line and then 2 years pay when the companies can't afford them anymore? I don't think so, Tim.

Hard to believe such a conservative is standing up for liberal labor unions who have dug their own graves finally. Now look where their ridiculous demands and benefits have taken them. All out of jobs and into corporate bankruptcy. If they took $44 per hour like the efficient Japanese and paid for some of their benefits they might still have jobs. The car companies are actually paying more out in retirement benefits and pensions than they are bringing in. Yea that's good business sense.

I would not stick up for CEOs either but the executives and unions both dug their own graves out of pure greed and the belief the gravy train would never end. Kind of like the housing bubble when no one believed houses would stop appreciating in double digits. All good things must come to an end.

[Doctor Octagon]

Originally Posted by TANaples

My neighbor's son and daughter-in-law moved here because they "thought" they would like the Florida lifestyle. It broke up their marriage.

You see he worked as management in the corporate offices of Madison Square Garden. The couple were farily well off and wined and dined with very famous and high profile people. When they moved here, he went to work as a landscaper. He made NO WHERE near the money he did before and was totally bored with the life he had here. I guess the sun and beaches were not enough. But then, why would he be satisfied to make peanuts to cut the grass of the rich and famous when he had partied with them before?

They both moved back, separately.

No offense, I couldnt live in NY, but that's me, but he must have been kind of dumb to leave that job for a landscpaing job in FL.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by Doctor Octagon

No offense, I couldnt live in NY, but that's me, but he must have been kind of dumb to leave that job for a landscpaing job in FL.

LOL Ya think? Sounds like the pilot for Green Acres.

[Sunny-Days-in-Florida]

Just to let you know that I know the midwest and it's manufacturing areas. They are all gone.

Empty plants and factories everywhere.

Also, my dad worked the same job for more then 40 years in a dirty factory.

He missed 2 days in 40 years and was a hard working person who gave his life to his company. Worked 2 months with broken ribs and would not tell them because he did not want to miss work.

This company is trying to take his and others benefits and some of his pay from him and it is wrong.

I know unions and contracts, his union has a hard time standing up against the company because of the amount of money they will spend to fight the retirees.

If you work somewhere for 40 years and the contract says you are going to get xxx dollars per month then it should be paid and was suppose to be put away for that.

If you only knew how much many of those people like my dad are getting screwed you would be shocked. While former plant managers and CEO's have multi million dollar homes all over Florida they want to steal from people like my dad.

Google the Longaberger Company in Newark and Dresden Ohio.

Ground built business turned into multi billion dollar business. Had 20,000 employees making baskets. Started by a man who did not get pass the 5th grade.

Yes, they were basket weavers knocking down 100k per year making baskets.

They are now down to 1500 workers and have cut their pay to nothing.

The massive layoffs have effected the entire towns of Dresden and Newark Ohio.

Blame it all on imports folks, we have to stop the importing into this country or we will never recover. No matter what state it is, we import everything now and it is killing America day by day.

[TANaples]

Originally Posted by Doctor Octagon

No offense, I couldnt live in NY, but that's me, but he must have been kind of dumb to leave that job for a landscpaing job in FL.

to come live here near them. They missed their grandkids, and now do, again.

[Sunny-Days-in-Florida]

Originally Posted by psouth

Yes, auto workers are unskilled. That's a fact. They got these jobs right out of high school and passed them along from generation to generation. It was guaranteed employment. What kind of skills does it take to bolt on the same part car after car all day and night. We are not talking about a tool and die shop here or fabricating which takes years of training and precision machining. I am not saying these folks aren't intelligent and decent people but $72 per hour on an assembly line and then 2 years pay when the companies can't afford them anymore? I don't think so, Tim.

Hard to believe such a conservative is standing up for liberal labor unions who have dug their own graves finally. Now look where their ridiculous demands and benefits have taken them. All out of jobs and into corporate bankruptcy. If they took $44 per hour like the efficient Japanese and paid for some of their benefits they might still have jobs. The car companies are actually paying more out in retirement benefits and pensions than they are bringing in. Yea that's good business sense.

I would not stick up for CEOs either but the executives and unions both dug their own graves out of pure greed and the belief the gravy train would never end. Kind of like the housing bubble when no one believed houses would stop appreciating in double digits. All good things must come to an end.

Yes, I am proudly a conservative with a union working Daddy who worked his butt off. He also voted conservative by the way. See most conservatives vote on what is right and not by one issue or what effects them personally.

And no, I am not standing up for unions at all. I am however standing up for those men and women who dedicated their lives to a company that owes them the money they were told they would get.

If you worked a job for 40 years and did your job day in and day out I would be backing you also.

Also look at the people running the companies, making millions a year in bonuses alone and having private airplanes etc.

The workers did not kill the companies, the CEO's and managers who were suppose to be college educated smart people. See what their college education got them?

So would you turn down a 100k job with nice benefits and retirement plans to stand on an assembly line? I doubt it.

The companies did this to themselves, nothing to do with the workers at all. See I know unions and contracts and the company sit across the table and offered these things to the unions and they took them.

Take a close look at GM, they are trying to screw us tax payers over. They were trying to sucker us into giving them bailout money so they can run off to Mexico and build cars and bring them back here. I say no. You go to Mexico you can keep your lousy cars in Mexico.

We need to penalize any company that goes out of the USA and wants to flood our markets here and reward those who stay.

[psouth]

Who gets to work the same job for 40 years anymore? I would be thankful just for that opportunity. We would all be able to save for retirement that way and not have to worry. Companies do not owe workers anything these days even promised pensions. That is old skool.

[Sunny-Days-in-Florida]

Originally Posted by psouth

Who gets to work the same job for 40 years anymore? I would be thankful just for that opportunity. We would all be able to save for retirement that way and not have to worry. Companies do not owe workers anything these days even promised pensions. That is old skool.

I agree. Those jobs are mostly gone. Also do not think this generation of 20 somethings are dedicated to anything like our parents and grandparents were. I hired many of those 20 somethings when I owned by business and believe me they did not want to work overtime, no weekends, did not want to work 8 hours either. I did not have that issue with the people I hired who were 35-50 range at all.

All I am saying if you found a job today and you paid into the retirement and the company matched you for 40 years then you deserve your money.

Face it, we are screwed psouth. Until someone in congress gets some ----- and tells it like it is we are screwed in America.

We need to stop the importing of everything and build or make it right here. We are even importing corn with our farmers field not growing any corn. Sad.

We need to go back to the industrial mentality but be much smarter.