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I lift heavy weights 3 times a week and I play basketball a lot as well. It would be very difficult to get sufficient protein without meat/fish, particularly without consuming far more carbohydrates and/or fats than I need. Sometimes I'll come home from a workout and I don't have any meat/fish thawed or cooked and I just pig out on whatever I have. Peanut butter, cheese, fruit, whole grain bread, yogurt, vegetables, olives, almonds, etc. I can eat easily eat 1,000+ calories of those foods and my hunger for carbohydrates and fat will be completely satiated, but my hunger for protein isn't.
Getting enough from protein from plant sources (and dairy and eggs if you're vegetarian) when you don't have much muscle mass and don't lift heavy weights is one thing. But when you get home from deadlifting and squating heavy weights 5-10% of calories from protein just flat out does not cut it.
This is a really unintentionally amusing post.
I'm a 55 year old female painting contractor and athlete and come from farming stock where daily lifting, physical labor and long life is every-day normal. so I do this every single day for almost 35 years and wtf with your little three times a week "difficult" exertion LOL. That's funny that your little work out gets you so exhausted. You really need some medical attention if lifting weights merely 3x a week gets you so unhinged and weak you require a special diet?
Working out 3x per week PLUS baseball? Oooh, that is SO hard core.
Please Google vegan triathletes and vegan bodybuilders...oh, I am sure you are much more of an elite athlete than Arian Foster, big man.
Believe it or not, I'm not Arian Foster. We don't have the same genetic makeup. Just because Tyrone can get huge doing jury-rigged exercises in cell block D and eating ramen noodles and Hostess snack cakes from the commissary doesn't mean the rest of us can. What Arian Foster eats has absolutely nothing to do with me.
Great example though, considering that your "vegan" NFL running back admitted that he still eats meat and that he has "been dabbling back and forth."
Now go google Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Shaquille O'Neal or any of the other 99% of professional athletes that aren't vegans.
Or Phil Heath, Kai Greene, Jay Cutler, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ronnie Coleman, or any of the other 100% of the top professional bodybuilders that aren't vegan.
Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 10-28-2013 at 07:38 PM..
Well, I don't have Celiac Disease and I according to my Physician who is an actual certified, licensed, gone to real school and everything Medical Doctor who also happens to specialize in treating my particular disease tells me I have to have meat for protein as well as gluten because of MY Disease.
Bottom line, you know nothing about me, my disease or my Physician and I will go with him and his advice regarding my health over an internet doctor any day.
You believe if you choose to that no one needs meat for protein just remember not everyone eats like you do or has the same dietary guidelines or disease.
From Livingstrong and other health websites:
Red Meat
Red meat, though rich in protein and nutrients such as iron, may pose problems if you have an autoimmune disease. Autoimmune diseases can cause mild to severe complications in your immune system's capabilities and increase your risk for symptoms ranging from fever and joint pain to extreme fatigue and unintentional weight loss. Eliminating red meat from your diet may help minimize these effects, according to the Cleveland Clinic. Red meat is often high in saturated fat, which may increase inflammation in your body and dampen your heart-health. Red meats particularly rich in saturated fat include organ meats, lamb, spare ribs, porterhouse and sirloin steak and processed meats.
I'm a 55 year old female painting contractor and athlete and come from farming stock where daily lifting, physical labor and long life is every-day normal. so I do this every single day for almost 35 years and wtf with your little three times a week "difficult" exertion LOL. That's funny that your little work out gets you so exhausted. You really need some medical attention if lifting weights merely 3x a week gets you so unhinged and weak you require a special diet?
Working out 3x per week PLUS baseball? Oooh, that is SO hard core.
Seriously.
Oh my God, a painting contractor. That must be so hard on you. How many times throughout the course of painting something do you deadlift 500+ pounds for reps?
I grew up on a farm too. The idea that farm labor requires a greater level of exertion than deadlifting, squating, or power cleaning heavy weights, or playing full court basketball, is completely asinine.
I don't eat a "special" diet. I eat what is, outside of the obese United States, considered a normal diet. You know...vegetables, fruit, meat, fish, beans, nuts, legumes, etc. Why you and Arian Foster Jr. take such offense to what I eat, I have no idea.
Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 10-28-2013 at 07:31 PM..
I lift heavy weights 3 times a week and I play basketball a lot as well. It would be very difficult to get sufficient protein without meat/fish, particularly without consuming far more carbohydrates and/or fats than I need. Sometimes I'll come home from a workout and I don't have any meat/fish thawed or cooked and I just pig out on whatever I have. Peanut butter, cheese, fruit, whole grain bread, yogurt, vegetables, olives, almonds, etc. I can eat easily eat 1,000+ calories of those foods and my hunger for carbohydrates and fat will be completely satiated, but my hunger for protein isn't.
Getting enough from protein from plant sources (and dairy and eggs if you're vegetarian) when you don't have much muscle mass and don't lift heavy weights is one thing. But when you get home from deadlifting and squating heavy weights 5-10% of calories from protein just flat out does not cut it.
It just depends on the individual person. I squat about 165% of my body weight, can hit 6x 155% my bodyweight on the flat bench, and comfortably do 20x body-weight wide-grip pull-ups. No, not going to win any competitions, but also not like I sit at my desk all day and don't lift any weights. I play soccer, volleyball, and softball and also do plyometrics each week with my wife. I have no problem keeping up or getting protein intake.
I have absolutely no issue with anyone else eating a lot of meat. As I've said before, everyone needs to find their own diet that works for them: meat, vegetarian, vegan, whatever. The key is finding the diet that lets YOU get all the nutrients and macro-nutrients that you need and helps keep you the most healthy. But when you make it seem like only "when you don't have much muscle mass and don't lift heavy" it's OK to not eat weight or suggest that you can't lift in be in good shape as a vegetarian, it comes across a little ignorant. My friend runs a local crossfit gym I go to every once and awhile and he is a vegetarian and is a 6'5 280lb monster. I lift a lot and have no issue. Other people do feel like they have an issue and want meat in their diet. Either way works for different people. Just because one is more common doesn't mean the other doesn't work fine too.
It's one thing to have your own plan that works for you because I can easily respect that as everyone should do what works for them and the thread is asking if you could personally go without meat. But to say that someone else can't have muscle mass without eating meat is a bit silly since they are an entirely different person.
Last edited by Sunbather; 10-28-2013 at 07:56 PM..
It just depends on the individual person. I squat about 165% of my body weight, can hit 6x 155% my bodyweight on the flat bench, and comfortably do 20x body-weight wide-grip pull-ups. No, not going to win any competitions, but also not like I sit at my desk all day and don't lift any weights. I play soccer, volleyball, and softball and also do plyometrics each week with my wife. I have no problem keeping up or getting protein intake.
I have absolutely no issue with anyone else eating a lot of meat. As I've said before, everyone needs to find their own diet that works for them: meat, vegetarian, vegan, whatever. The key is finding the diet that lets YOU get all the nutrients and macro-nutrients that you need and helps keep you the most healthy. But when you make it seem like only "when you don't have much muscle mass and don't lift heavy" it's OK to not eat weight or suggest that you can't lift in be in good shape as a vegetarian, it comes across a little ignorant. My friend runs a local crossfit gym I go to every once and awhile and he is a vegetarian and is a 6'5 280lb monster. I lift a lot and have no issue. Other people do feel like they have an issue and want meat in their diet. Either way works for different people. Just because one is more common doesn't mean the other doesn't work fine too.
It's one thing to have your own plan that works for you because I can easily respect that as everyone should do what works for them. But to say that someone else can't have muscle mass without eating meat is a bit silly since they are an entirely different person.
I did not say you can't have muscle mass without eating meat, or that you can't be in good shape without eating meat. I know that you can.
I was responding to the point that's always made that you can get all the protein you need from whole plant foods. That depends on the person. A skinny marathon runner doesn't need much protein. If 10% of their caloric intake is protein they're probably going to be fine. If you just do a little cardio and maybe some light resistance training you might be fine. If you're sedentary you might be fine. For someone with a lot of muscle mass who tears their muscles up regularly in the gym, 10% of caloric intake as protein isn't going to cut it (unless maybe you're one of those prisoners with elite muscle-gaining genetics). As you gain muscle mass your protein needs rise a lot faster than your carbohydrate and fat needs. Since I started working out, I eat about 2x as much protein per day, but I only eat probably 40% more carbohydrates and fat. So whether or not you can get all the protein you need from whole plant foods...it depends on your build and activities.
I'm well aware there are some vegan bodybuilders that are pretty big, strong, and cut, but they're not consuming 10% of their calories as protein (like you might reasonably expect from eating a vegan diet without supplementation). They usually take yellow pea protein or soy protein supplements and as a result are consuming a lot more protein that what they would be consuming if they ate only whole plant foods. Or if they're vegetarian they might take whey, cassein, or albumen.
Edit: Now, this part I originally started typing earlier but I omitted it because I had to run somewhere...
For me personally, when I rely on protein supplements I don't do very well in the gym. They go right through me very quickly and when I get a high percentage of my protein intake from them I tend to not do very well in the gym. For others they might work better. But for me personally meat works a lot better than protein isolates. If someone else can eat a vegan or vegetarian diet and supplement with yellow pea or soybean protein and do really well in the gym, more power to them.
Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 10-28-2013 at 08:29 PM..
I did not say you can't have muscle mass without eating meat, or that you can't be in good shape without eating meat. I know that you can.
I was responding to the point that's always made that you can get all the protein you need from whole plant foods. That depends on the person. A skinny marathon runner doesn't need much protein. If 10% of their caloric intake is protein they're probably going to be fine. For someone with a lot of muscle mass who tears their muscles up regularly in the gym, 10% of caloric intake as protein isn't going to cut it. As you gain muscle mass your protein needs rise a lot faster than your carbohydrate and fat needs. Since I started working out, I eat about 2x as much protein per day, but I only eat probably 40% more carbohydrates and fat.
I'm well aware there are some vegan bodybuilders that are pretty big, strong, and cut, but they're not consuming 10% of their calories as protein (like you might reasonably expect from eating a vegan diet without supplementation). They usually take yellow pea protein or soy protein supplements and as a result are consuming a lot more protein that what they would be consuming if they ate only whole plant foods. Or if they're vegetarian they might take whey, cassein, or albumen.
For me personally, when I rely on protein supplements I don't do very well in the gym. They go right through me very quickly and when I get a high percentage of my protein intake from them I tend to not do as well in the gym. For others they might work better.
No problem. There would probably have been less misunderstanding if I hadn't omitted the last part the first time (see edit).
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