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Old 03-22-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,392 posts, read 1,276,614 times
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Originally Posted by Chris Balducci View Post
Where did that map come from?
Wikipedia
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:12 PM
 
1,495 posts, read 1,948,249 times
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People of all regions, including the South, talk about "the South" and "Southerners". It is generally recognized as a thing-that-exists.

Only Southerners talk about "the North" and "Northerners". It is not generally recognized as a thing-that-exists. With a possible exception in the case of history/Civil War buffs, and geography nerds like me.

Basically, the South is unique. You can try and protest that reality, or you can embrace it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:41 AM
 
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Being a Northerner or even a Northeasterner means nothing to me. I’m a New Englander. The Midwest and the Mid Atlantic are as foreign to me as the South or the West Coast.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:20 PM
 
800 posts, read 645,154 times
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Northerner really is a Southern invention (albeit a somewhat understandable one) because "The Northern" states are a giant conglomeration of various cultures.

You can really see this play out at Big Ten Universities, some of which, like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana have large student populations from NY, NJ, PA etc.

The kids from the NE consider us native lower Midwesterners hicks. The funny thing is some native Chicagoans and Detroit suburb kids have this attitude too.

I definitely feel like I have more in common with people from cities like Nashville, Lexington, or especially Louisville than people from the NE or even Chicago.

It's a really interesting clash at the university level...
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:52 PM
205
 
274 posts, read 294,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyIU29 View Post
Northerner really is a Southern invention (albeit a somewhat understandable one) because "The Northern" states are a giant conglomeration of various cultures.

You can really see this play out at Big Ten Universities, some of which, like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana have large student populations from NY, NJ, PA etc.

The kids from the NE consider us native lower Midwesterners hicks. The funny thing is some native Chicagoans and Detroit suburb kids have this attitude too.

I definitely feel like I have more in common with people from cities like Nashville, Lexington, or especially Louisville than people from the NE or even Chicago.

It's a really interesting clash at the university level...


I was about to mention the same thing because this is where I see the most tangible differences as it applies to "the South" as a distinct entity. The most obvious example is how SEC (Southeastern Conference) fans take a sort of collective pride in the conference's accomplishments against the Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, Big East, ACC, etc. I read Big Ten team boards other fan message boards from teams in other conferences and they think the SEC's "conference pride" is stupid. Generally speaking, I think it stems from the fact that while individual regions of the South are just as diverse as any other region there is a loose camaradie and distinct identity that connects people from the South. There is serious rivalry and dislike amongst areas within the South but at the same time we share a rich and distinct culture that is commonly misunderstood and unappreciated by the rest of the country. The fact many non-Southerners still think the South is a non-diverse culturally bankrupt monolithic wasteland despite it being the American birthplace of rock n roll, blues, and jazz music not to mention some of the best food culture in the country makes these broad generalizations even more frustrating. The South's contribution to this country is off the charts yet is it constantly marginilized and criticized for all its CONS and none of its PROS.

Finally, I think a lot of the resentment (not open hostility...big difference) Southerners have for non Southerners stems from the fact that the South is scapegoated for all the historical problems the country has faced since its inception. Look at any serious social issue and how each region is scrutinized. The South is scapegoated for racism, poverty, low educational attainment, obesity, poor health, etc even though these are extremely serious issues all over this country. It's as if many people think the United States would be free of all these social ills if we just got rid of the rotten scummy South. I suppose it's human nature though. As long as there are places where the problem is deemed to be worse it gives people an excuse to point the finger and say that's where the real problems lie. That way you don't have to deal with your own issues.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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in terms of historic cultures, dialects, etc, there are really two norths

the upper north - new england to upstate NY, to outstate michigan, and on to wisconsin and minnesota

the lower north - NYC, penn, ohio, illinois, etc.

The upper north aside from quirks of pronunciation, is known for a somewhat moralistic approach to politics - not moralistic in terms of defense of tradition, but in terms of seeing politics as a venue for reform, for improving the world, etc. For an illustration of the class of that view with the southern view, see The Bostonians, by Henry James, or C Vann Woodwards review of it (from a southern POV)

However that world view clashes as much with the lower North world view (where politics is a struggle of interests and patronage) as much as it does with the southern one. Note that in NYC parts of the Protestant upper middle class had an "upper north" view, (as did, for different reasons, many Jewish immigrants) that clashed with NYCs predominant lower north culture (to some degree Irish immigrants clashed with the prevailing upper north view in Boston).

In addition to that split, since the 1950s there have been dramatic differences in economic fortunes between the "rust belt" (the midwest but also several parts of the inland north east) and the "Northeastern corridor"

For those reasons, the "north" does not really exist, except as a contrast to the South.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
The fact many non-Southerners still think the South is a non-diverse culturally bankrupt monolithic wasteland despite it being the American birthplace of rock n roll, blues, and jazz music not to mention some of the best food culture in the country makes these broad generalizations even more frustrating. The South's contribution to this country is off the charts yet is it constantly marginilized and criticized for all its CONS and none of its PROS..

jazz? blues?

in another thread, someone asked if there are parts of the north that been southernized, the way parts of the south have recently become northernized. Prior to my post, no one, not the northerners OR the southerners, pointed out that almost every large northern city had one or more neighborhoods that had become culturally southern at the time of the great migration of african americans.

White Americans, for the most part, do not think of african americans as southerners. period.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:50 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
Generally speaking, I think it stems from the fact that while individual regions of the South are just as diverse as any other region
\


Im not sure thats entirely true. Large scale migration across the region between 1790 and 1850, driven largely by agricultural practices, actually created much stronger ties across the south than exist between, say, Massachusetts and New Jersey. Granted theres SOME of that in the north (in sometimes narrow east west bands) and granted theres a lowland vs upland distinction in the south, and some exceptions like French Louisiana, but I think its not far off to say that the ties and cultural commonalities across the south are stronger than across the north.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:05 PM
 
800 posts, read 645,154 times
Reputation: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
I was about to mention the same thing because this is where I see the most tangible differences as it applies to "the South" as a distinct entity. The most obvious example is how SEC (Southeastern Conference) fans take a sort of collective pride in the conference's accomplishments against the Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, Big East, ACC, etc. I read Big Ten team boards other fan message boards from teams in other conferences and they think the SEC's "conference pride" is stupid. Generally speaking, I think it stems from the fact that while individual regions of the South are just as diverse as any other region there is a loose camaradie and distinct identity that connects people from the South. There is serious rivalry and dislike amongst areas within the South but at the same time we share a rich and distinct culture that is commonly misunderstood and unappreciated by the rest of the country. The fact many non-Southerners still think the South is a non-diverse culturally bankrupt monolithic wasteland despite it being the American birthplace of rock n roll, blues, and jazz music not to mention some of the best food culture in the country makes these broad generalizations even more frustrating. The South's contribution to this country is off the charts yet is it constantly marginilized and criticized for all its CONS and none of its PROS.

Finally, I think a lot of the resentment (not open hostility...big difference) Southerners have for non Southerners stems from the fact that the South is scapegoated for all the historical problems the country has faced since its inception. Look at any serious social issue and how each region is scrutinized. The South is scapegoated for racism, poverty, low educational attainment, obesity, poor health, etc even though these are extremely serious issues all over this country. It's as if many people think the United States would be free of all these social ills if we just got rid of the rotten scummy South. I suppose it's human nature though. As long as there are places where the problem is deemed to be worse it gives people an excuse to point the finger and say that's where the real problems lie. That way you don't have to deal with your own issues.

It's become an interesting dilemma and increasingly antagonistic between the two sides, particularly at IU which by far has the most "rural" or "country" influence of the Big 10 Schools with a sizeable Northeastern contingent. While there are no Big 10 chants or anything comparing to SEC pride emerging, there is growing gap between IU students from Southern Indiana (Indy on down), Southern Ohio, Louisville, and Missouri whose cultures clash tremendously with the "Northeasterners", who tend to be dismissive of the local culture or not caring about sports rivalries with Kentucky or Purdue. It's incredibly interesting to watch and this election year could make the problem decidedly worse
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,692 posts, read 33,700,331 times
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The national news media is in New York City and Washington DC and Hollywood controls the non-news media. Stereotypes about regions of the country come from them and you are exposed to those stereotypes every day of your entire life.
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