Which states are considered northeastern? (boat, complex, should)

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by LINative

This is an excellent question! I been wondering the same thing myself.

I have a couple of theories myself, the biggest one is that the hinderlands of New York and Pennsylvania are much more working rural then most of New England.

For example, look at these stats on farmland in the 6 New England states versus New York and Pennsylvania.
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/

New England
Area: 72,000 square miles
Farmland: 3,870,000 acres (2018)

New York
Area: 54,000 square miles
Farmland: 6,900,000 acres

Pennsylvania
Area: 46,000 square miles
Farmland: 7,300,000 acres

So even though New York has only about 75% of New England area, New York still has more than 3,000,000 more acres in agriculture, helping indicate how much of a working rural environment New York has. In the case of Pennsylvania and New England, the difference is stunning, Pennsylvania has close to twice the amount of acreage, despite having a much smaller land area.

Another reason is that New England's reputation of small town charm attract middle class and upper middle class retirees, weekenders and tourists which bring money into the rural regions.

This is a good stab! I think it's a fairly decent portion of the reason why.

Another may be how industrialized the cities were out here. Lots of steel, chemical, and plastics, etc. TONS of rural factories too. Likewise, mining. Coal in PA, salt and copper in NY, so forth. Whereas New England was more on the textiles and clothing manufacturing side of things, as well as insurance and banking (NYC being the only real major extension of that line of big business westward, perhaps Albany too).

Another reason may have been ease of travel (as to relatively isolated communities). For a long time if you weren't a boatman, speedy, long-distance driving across Pennsylvania and a lot of NY state was difficult to near impossible. Both states are mired in hills and mountains, and the flat Ontario region of NY is all swamps aside from farmland. It has taken funding and assistance from the Appalachian regional commission to build an interstate through southern upstate NY (I-86/old 17), and many other roads just south into PA.

Another another reason is that western NY and PA fell hard to the rust belt effect, and it still scars both states today. Only in the last few years has NY state torn down thousands of abandoned homes and factories across its landscape (though it does nothing to treat the cause of the problem). Don't let it fool you though, those crumbling structures were everywhere, and still are off the beaten paths.

Yet another reason may be the sport of hunting. NY and PA have a huge mass of in-state hunters. Registered and otherwise. Many like-minded outdoorsy folks live in the area.

As for New Jersey, that state is overall much more urbanized than PA or NY but still has a plethora of its own problems, especially within the lesser-known interior.

Addendum: I have also mentioned before on this site elsewhere, that upstate NY's rural and small town oriented country-folk feel that they have a lot to prove. It's a natural fight to rise above the stereotypes of NY state. Most of which are NYC-centric. Distancing yourself as a rural New Yorker, especially one who has struggled with American poverty, from the image of a fast paced urban downstater is important to a lot of us. The rest of the country dismisses what life in a lot of NY state is actually like, and it's frustrating; particularly coming from the bottom rungs.

My personal life growing up was straight out of a West Virginia tale, but I faced a lot of "there are no poor people in NY" attitudes when I lived out of state. It was like I was being invalidated, and my experiences belittled, because I was from NY. I am surely not alone.

[boxNcode]

here's my opinion...

Purely Northeast: all of New England and NYS.. along with parts of other states in the metro area.. so this would include MA, NH, VT, CT, RI, NY, and the northern half of NJ.. also the northern half of PA

Northeast but also Mid-Atlantic: basically the entire Philly area.. the part of south jersey close to philly, PA.. and the parts of DE and MD that are close to Philly.. i consider Philly as the most southern Northeastern City..

Southern Mid-Atlantic: most of MD and the DMV region.. also FAR south jersey can count in there as well (yup i said it)

The REAL south starts in VA as soon as u leave the DMV..

(all coming from someone who's lived in North Jersey and Boston.. and went to college by Albany, NY)

[AshbyQuin]

Originally Posted by boxNcode

here's my opinion...

Purely Northeast: all of New England and NYS.. along with parts of other states in the metro area.. so this would include MA, NH, VT, CT, RI, NY, and the northern half of NJ.. also the northern half of PA

Northeast but also Mid-Atlantic: basically the entire Philly area.. the part of south jersey close to philly, PA.. and the parts of DE and MD that are close to Philly.. i consider Philly as the most southern Northeastern City..

Southern Mid-Atlantic: most of MD and the DMV region.. also FAR south jersey can count in there as well (yup i said it)

The REAL south starts in VA as soon as u leave the DMV..

(all coming from someone who's lived in North Jersey and Boston.. and went to college by Albany, NY)

This is a balanced take, should appease both the MD is Northern/Southern crowd.

Did you also read that op-ed on NYT calling Philadelphia 'The Most Northern of Southern Cities'?

[the resident09]

I hate to break it to some, but there is no such thing as a "Southern Mid-Atlantic". It simply doesn't exist. The Mid-Atlantic is both the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware River Valley regions all the way to the Atlantic Coast. Everything South of Northern NJ to Northern VA is the Mid-Atlantic. Look up any definitions in google you want and this will be apparent. There is no such thing as a "Southern Mid-Atlantic" except for what people post on this website. People largely use the same beaches, the Susquehanna drains out into the Chesapeake etc. etc.

Northeastern/South etc. has no basis in a discussion about mid-Atlantic because that sub region traverses both Census designations. Philly's area Northward could essentially start the "technical Northeast", with "Northeast" culture. But when it comes to being in, or a part of the Mid-Atlantic, NJ, MD, PA, DE, DC, and even Northern VA, are really all the Mid-Atlantic. I barely even consider NY state Mid-Atlantic, but I guess the immediate tri-state NYC metro still qualifies.

[LakersWon310]

Delaware and Pennsylvania to Maine is the true northeast. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Delaware is by far the Northeast’s most misunderstood state.

[Gaylord_Focker]

Tough one. All of New England is. I think New York and New Jersey are too, though many would say they're Mid-Atlantic? I would say Philadelphia is a northeast city, but Pittsburgh isn't?

DC and Maryland are Mid-Atlantic although they anchor the northeast corridor/megalopolis.

[Heel82]

Maryland to Maine. The bottom part of the northeast overlaps with part of the mid-Atlantic.

[AshbyQuin]

Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker

Tough one. All of New England is. I think New York and New Jersey are too, though many would say they're Mid-Atlantic? I would say Philadelphia is a northeast city, but Pittsburgh isn't?

DC and Maryland are Mid-Atlantic although they anchor the northeast corridor/megalopolis.

Correct. And it’s not Midwestern either no matter how many try and say it (Pittsburgh) is.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by muppethammer26

There is no clear definition of the Northeast, the smallest definition only includes the six New England states and New York, while the largest definition includes anything north of the Ohio and Potomac Rivers and east of the Mississippi River. The most common definition includes the New England (ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT) states and the Mid Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, DC) states. Sometimes, the Northeast even reaches as south as the Virginias. The definition of the Northeast could be changed at anytime. The original definition only included ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, DE, PA and that happened when this country was still new. MD used to be considered a southeastern colony, but overtime, MD became more northeastern.

Which states do you considered Northeastern?

To me it would be the New England states plus New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland and Washington DC. I also consider Northern Virginia (though not the rest of the state) to culturally Northeastern. I think Ohio is the Midwest and West Virginia is the South.

[personone]

Pennsylvania to Main as a strict definition, but it can be extended to include DE/MD/DC/Northern VA just depending on the circumstances of how it is being defined.