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OK, having re-read this I see you were comparing South Jersey and NW Indiana. I guess I assumed you were comparing North Jersey given that it has a blue collar stereotype.
Still I'm not sure I would call South Side of Chicago and NW Indiana as "Northeast-like" - this area seems very quintessentially (rust belt) Midwest.
Well let's see how Chicago and NW Indiana have more characteristics reminiscent of the Philly area:
They both have more density than their respective states
They both are faster paced than the rest of their respective states
They both have a very industrial heritage (which yes the Northeast is known for especially the Mid-Atlantic portion)
They have higher concentrations of White ethnics (Italians, Irish, Poles, Eastern Europeans)
There is a lot of forested area juxtaposed with industrial remains (compare the Indiana National Lakeshore with the Pine Barrens)
They both have suburbs which show decay (Gary, Camden) while the main city has shifted from one industry to multiple
So I think that the NW/Calumet region shares more than a few similarities with the Philly metro.
Bonus: Both Indiana and New Jersey are known in their respective areas as the "armpit of America"
I don't see how Gary is not urban? Is your metric for urban just rowhouses? Those houses in Gary look like some areas of Chicago and even parts of Queens.
I don't see how Gary is not urban? Is your metric for urban just rowhouses? Those houses in Gary look like some areas of Chicago and even parts of Queens.
Camden, at 8,669 persons per square mile, is significantly denser than Gary at 1,610 persons per square mile. Camden also appears to be structurally denser, as the earlier streetview links show. This is just a few blocks from the convention center in Gary; Camden is a rowhouse city and although it has plenty of vacant lots, it really doesn't have neighborhoods that look like that.
Camden, at 8,669 persons per square mile, is significantly denser than Gary at 1,610 persons per square mile. Camden also appears to be structurally denser, as the earlier streetview links show. This is just a few blocks from the convention center in Gary; Camden is a rowhouse city and although it has plenty of vacant lots, it really doesn't have neighborhoods that look like that.
Density is only one aspect of urbanity. If this was the only metric, Detroit lost its urban status after lots of people left. People abandoning a city doesn't stop it being urban.
Although I would classify Gary as a suburb of Chicago myself I wouldn't say it isn't urban.
Density is only one aspect of urbanity. If this was the only metric, Detroit lost its urban status after lots of people left. People abandoning a city doesn't stop it being urban.
Although I would classify Gary as a suburb of Chicago myself I wouldn't say it isn't urban.
You are correct but that was the easiest aspect to compare since it was already brought up.
I've never been to Gary but just by poking around on Streetview, it doesn't seem particularly urban but I'd imagine that's largely due to abandonment over the years. Camden is lucky because being directly across the river from Philly, some of its problems are mitigated.
I don't see how Gary is not urban? Is your metric for urban just rowhouses? Those houses in Gary look like some areas of Chicago and even parts of Queens.
It doesn't have to be just rowhouses. But detached single-family houses with front lawns are a suburban building typology. And I purposefully picked one of the oldest areas of Gary. Plenty of the city looks like this. Virtually nothing in the city was built out before 1900, with most of the growth between 1920 and 1960. The older neighborhoods are kind of streetcar suburbia, but most of the city is just straight up early automotive suburbia.
It doesn't have to be just rowhouses. But detached single-family houses with front lawns are a suburban building typology. And I purposefully picked one of the oldest areas of Gary. Plenty of the city looks like this. Virtually nothing in the city was built out before 1900, with most of the growth between 1920 and 1960. The older neighborhoods are kind of streetcar suburbia, but most of the city is just straight up early automotive suburbia.
Detached single family homes with front lawns make up the majority of the Chicago landscape in the city limits. I don't think that makes Chicago not urban.
Detached single family homes with front lawns make up the majority of the Chicago landscape in the city limits. I don't think that makes Chicago not urban.
And Chicago has areas that are suburban. So does NYC. So does Philly. Los Angeles, DC, etc.
Cincinnati: Arguably as visually close to Pennsylvania as Ohio can get in a city environment. From the topography to the architecture, the Cincinnati/ Northern Kentucky area has that Pennsylvania look that isn't associated with the Midwest.
The ignorant masses like to say Cincinnati is Southern, and the stalwart SE Ohions insist it is solidy Midwestern (which I am strongly inclined to agree with).
But I feel like Cincinnati, in outward appearance, local accent/dialect, and general attitudes, could be plopped midway between Baltimore and NYC and no one would bat an eyelash.
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