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View Poll Results: Are Northeasterners Less Liberal than Perceived?
Yes 26 56.52%
No 9 19.57%
Perception is Accurate 11 23.91%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-22-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,488 posts, read 16,150,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
There are two types of conservatives: economic/foreign policy conservatives and social conservatives. The former have a strong presence in the northeast, the latter are very weak. "Guns, Gays and God" just doesn't resonate up here like it does elsewhere. The Republican politicians who have done well, Giuliani, Pataki, Weld, Ridge, etc., were are all pro-choice and, for the most part, pro-gay rights.

The McCain of 2000 could have been competitive here (he won New Hampshire) but, with his sharp turn to the social conservatives in 2004, he lost the moderates. Once he chose Sarah Palin it was all over.

It highlights the quandry faced by the Republican Party in general. Bill Clinton's greatest triumph (and probably most lasting legacy) was to demonstrate that Democrats could be fiscally responsible. It undercut the Republican's "socialist" charge in this election cycle. Without economic issues (and with Bush's foreign policy fiascos) they had little to campaign on except social issues and it, obviously, wasn't enough. Without a Clinton, I don't think there could have been an Obama.

If a Republican candidate were to drop the social issues, he or she could be competitive in New York and California. It would still be close, but competitive.

This is the best post yet. I was going to write a reply myself, but this post says what I had to say.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,565,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Catholicism is socially moderate.

The Catholic church takes...
a liberal stance on immigration,
a conservative stance on gay marriage,
a liberal stance on capital punishment,
a conservative stance on abortion,
a liberal stance on the War in Iraq.
I wouldn't say the Catholic Church is liberal about capital punishment...John Paul 2 said something to the affect of keeping capital punishment when necessary. Executing every criminal is not really a conservative position.

More importantly, the church informed American voters that they should not vote for anyone is not opposed to abortion. Apparently some issues are more important than others.

I also wouldn't say that being against the war in Iraq to be a liberal/conservative issue. What, conservatives are by definition war-mongers? In fact, it is a traditional conservative value to cut government spending in all facets including military spending. However, point taken on immigration.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:56 AM
 
2,816 posts, read 5,384,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
Connecticut is solid blue in that map, yet the state voted nearly 40% in favor of McCain.
That just shows tha the whole Red America vs Blue America is a lot o bull. Even if you brek it down to county level you will find that in most cases nearly half the people vote Democrat in "red counties" and nearly half the people vote Republican in "blue counties".
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,085 posts, read 11,451,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomo.2000 View Post
You hit the nail in the head. Liberalism/democrat or Republican/conservatism are not as simple as the media and stereotypes want us to believe.

There are many Democratic conservatives in the N.E. Most are as you said, labor unions. I spent a summer having to supervise building construction. Pretty much watching over lower middle class democratic union guys. Some of these guys are more racist and conservative than a southern Klu Klux Klan memeber, and would never vote for a Black man no matter what.

I also went to college with friends that came from the upper class suburbs of Washington and Conneticut. These kids smoked pot, as well as other drugs, had sex with different women every night, partied hardy, denounced their Christianity, etc, and belonged to the Students for the Republican party group. However, it looked like they were hippie liberals.

The media simplifies it too far. You are either a God fearing conservative or a hippie welfare liberal. Humans are not that simple. A person like myself has mixed views along different issues such as drug legalization, seperation of church and state, capital punishment, the environment, urban issues, and so on. It isn't as simple as a us vs them.
Great post! This is what I was going to say, and did say in agreement with sweetclimber on the Texas forum where there is a similar discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography Freak View Post
That just shows tha the whole Red America vs Blue America is a lot o bull. Even if you brek it down to county level you will find that in most cases nearly half the people vote Democrat in "red counties" and nearly half the people vote Republican in "blue counties".
Not only that, but a lot of those rural areas have hardly any people, so these maps give off something of a false illusion making people think there are hordes of people voting one way or another when that's not really the case.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Living in Hampton, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetclimber View Post
Welfare and labor unions are pretty big issues in the Northeast. Many lower income people will vote Dem based on the welfare platform and not because of "liberal" issues. Many also are involved with the unions and will vote Dem because of this too, and not because of liberal social issues. Racism is just as prevelent in the Northeast as in the South. Having lived a long time in both regions, I can accurately attest to that.
Good point.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:24 AM
 
5,858 posts, read 14,044,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstoner View Post
Great post! This is what I was going to say, and did say in agreement with sweetclimber on the Texas forum where there is a similar discussion.



Not only that, but a lot of those rural areas have hardly any people, so these maps give off something of a false illusion making people think there are hordes of people voting one way or another when that's not really the case.
And vise versa. Extreme example: Kings County, NY
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc2va76 View Post
Good point.
Northern racism and Southern racism are two different animals. Southern racism stems from status concerns, Northern racism stems from fear.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:32 AM
 
5,858 posts, read 14,044,713 times
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ainulianale: I'm curious how you structured your poll. What is the difference between "Yes" and "Perception is accurate"?
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,565,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
ainulianale: I'm curious how you structured your poll. What is the difference between "Yes" and "Perception is accurate"?
I know, I realized how confusing it was after I posted it. I guess it should be interpreted:

"Yes" = the East Coast is less liberal than people perceive it
"Perception is Accurate" = East Coast is the same as people perceive it
"No" = the East Coast is more liberal than perceived
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