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Talking with some coworkers this Monday morning, and the subject topic came up. Surprisingly (or maybe not so suprisingly) every one of us believe that American culture and society is on a downslide and has been for several decades. What we can't agree on is when it started.
Some of them say when America picked politics (tongue in cheek) as it's favorite pasttime (about the 1930s). That once politics really took off, it became commonplace for lying, cheating, backstabbing, etc. And since people of that generation generally respected politicians (or at least the profession was respected), that the behaviors that had been adopted were seen as acceptable, and the decline started at that point.
Others say when women entered the workforce during/just after World War II. This is NOT a woman-bashing, or male chauvinistic reasoning. What the argument is (and some of the co-workers are female who agree with this premise) is that women realized they could do the jobs of men (including more of the strenuous physical labor-type); and, thus started the opening of the floodgates of women into the workforce. The fallout was two-fold: first, families started seeing the results of both parents working (there were far fewer single-parent households back then) - resulting in families not establishing what were generally common morals and acceptable behaviors to the children, leaving that up to the younger (and generally less life-experienced) day care centers/babysitters; and, secondly, that we effectively doubled the workforce without creating a proportionate amount of jobs. The latter issue would start the ever-increasing unemployment numbers that still exist today. This, then, was the opening for government subsidy programs, which some argue contribute greatly to the decline of society.
Yet others would say it was the "sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll" of the 60's, where "if it feels good, do it!" was the motto for the day. What that effectively did was start the "turning the head" for immoral behaviors to not only find a foothold, but actually propogate throughout the country as "normal" behaviors. Everything from TV shows to songs on the radio started playing whatever they could for shock value (and sales), but what it also did was lay the underlying notion that there was not a "baseline acceptable" behavior for society. Without that - and forced acceptance of "abnormal behaviors" that followed (by definition, behaviors that were not practiced by the majority of society at that time), society started down the moral/cultural decline that exists today. Now, people are so used to "turning the other cheek" that it's too late to put the proverbial cat back in the bag, and society wouldn't be able to create any sort of "normal" culture or society because bucking the system has become fashionable, even in (or because of) the judiciary system.
Others still have random thoughts of the "me" generation yuppies of the 90's, to the San Francisco hippie/gay rights movements, to drama shows on TV today.
So, are we (as a nation) on a cultural and/or moral downslide that we can't recover from, or are there just a bunch of uptight "old fashioned" people who want to stand in the way of progress? If we are on that downslide, when did it start and can it be stopped (or do we even want it to)?
If there is a decline - which I am not qualified to judge - it most certainly began with the disintegration of family life. The family is one of the cornerstones of our society; and if it goes, the whole structure is undermined. If there is a decline, there is no one to blame but ourselves; for if we did not actively participate in it, we stood by, and let pass without objection.
Last edited by Wendell Phillips; 03-19-2012 at 11:15 AM..
American culture, as no other, represents human ideology of transforming Earth, Environment, People, EVERYTHING .. into a resource/commodity to be exploited and transformed into "wealth" of the best and brightest (as defined by circular logic). As ideology of domination and control clashes with ecological & resource constraints it imposes significant strains on the society built around the promise of the unlimited consumption & upward mobility. So far, propaganda and mind control make up for the difference of illusions, societal aspirations and reality, but social "strains" are getting stronger every year. Beside, if you and everything around you are a mere commodity, it doesn't make for a happy society. Let's cult of positivity and fake cheerfulness not full you, STAGGERING amounts of antidepressants & drugs consumed in USA tell different story.
In short, USA (with the rest of the world lagging just a tiny bit) is a Status centered society. Atomized, self-adjusting human robot zombies transform everything around them into "resource" to be used in the status keeping games, moving up a ladder is the only meaning and purpose. This self-imposed isolation and cult of competition are 180 degrees opposite to the social & communitarian human biology, we are hierarchical BUT social animals. In the past century, the promise of unlimited status climbing was unquestioned staple of the social control. Today, this promise not only look more and more ridiculous (in the light of probability and statistics), many start viewing the promise not as a noble goal in itself but as a necessary for the modern survival evil, the evil that destroys and gives little back. Maybe, in the USA it's not as obvious, but abroad America is no longer a moral or social beacon of any kind.
If there is a decline - which I am not qualified to judge - it most certainly began with the disintegration of family life. The family is one of the cornerstones of our society; and if it goes, the whole structure is undermined. If there is a decline, there is no one to blame but ourselves; for if we did not actively participate in it, we stood by, and let pass without objection.
Industrial age destroyed extended and nuclear family 400 years ago by forcing both parents to leave their farm/village and to sell their arses for cheap. Besides, a nuclear family was NEVER a foundation of a society. For uncountable thousands of years of human history extended families and tribes were the building blocks. Industrial age destroyed all of that and gave us fake poster images of USA circa 1950 with husband working in an office and wife cooking as an ersatz to aspire for. Nuclear family is INADEQUATE to make up for the communal spirit lost.
Is "American" culture on a downside? .... I thnk not.
Granted, the simplest presentations via the mass media and the tackiest forms of merchandising would insult the intelligence of a lot of twelve-year-olds, but the real American culture has been morphing into something better for decades; and its rival, the worn-out European system, is deteriorating at a faster rate.
I am, by choice, a confirmed bachelor -- just not geared to the constant self-effacement that goes with a life ruled by too many commitments. But life was getting stale, and only a fool believes that the world beghins and ends with him/her. so I discussed it with some friends, including an indulgent career-educator bachlor uncle who was a strong presence in my own upbringing, and eventually became involved with a network of Asian immigrants, many of them opting for Canada rather than the U S, because of fewer "rough edges".
My point being, there are far more people who see ths picture than the shallow thinking depicted at supermarket checkout counters would lead us to expect. The alternatives are functional, healthy, and cut across the entire spectrum of social and spiritual belief.
We will come out of our present malaise healthier than ever.
I'd say it's in big trouble. No offence, but I don't know of another country or culture on earth that is as overwhelmingly materialistic, consumerist and individualistic as the US, even though such traits exist to a somewhat lesser extent in other western countries. I have never seen so much absolute junk and tripe on TV in my entire life either, which is a sad reflection on society in 2012. I've never know a more narcissistic, self-entitled and culturally inept era for as long as I can remember. Keeping up with the Joneses is what it's all about, along with turning the other cheek and covering your arse.
Maybe, in the USA it's not as obvious, but abroad America is no longer a moral or social beacon of any kind.
I'm not going to get into the rest of the propaganda posted by you I'll just answer this one part of your comment. The reason the US is no longer seen as the moral beacon as it was say in the 90's is due mostly to the Iraq War and great recession. If you look at polling done since that time period though it has shown that the view of the United States from abroad has been getting better since then. Also if you look at the history of the United States and the views of people in other countries about it you'll see swings in positive and negative views about it. Going back throughout are history.
People say that certain points in television were the decline, I'd say television itself. I mean, radio was great- people who lived all over could be informed and entertained with only audio commercials. Visuals are absorbed in a very different way in the brain, and now we have 24-hour-a-day many many multiple media points to get images beamed in (Facebook, advertising *everywhere*). So I'd say that "culture" took a downward dive with the spread of TV.
"Family disintegration" isn't what I think of as "culture," but no question that with more freedom, more people (women) with more choices, could choose not to marry/stay home/raise children. I think that is great for individuals, and I'm one of them. I do agree with the poster who suggested we are meant to live (hard-wired, that is) in a tribal or clan or village-sized group. Note that most tribal people get up to some degree of number of people, and then parts start to branch off, although there might be some kind of federation among the parts (didn't the Iraquious (SP) teach the 13 first states about that?
That said, Pandora's box is opened. Such communities rarely exist in modern U.S. society and most people (myself included) wouldn't know how to be in one or start one.
I think you could call that a decline in a major aspect of U.S. life (community) but not culture.
Talking with some coworkers this Monday morning, and the subject topic came up. Surprisingly (or maybe not so suprisingly) every one of us believe that American culture and society is on a downslide and has been for several decades. What we can't agree on is when it started.
Some of them say when America picked politics (tongue in cheek) as it's favorite pasttime (about the 1930s). That once politics really took off, it became commonplace for lying, cheating, backstabbing, etc. And since people of that generation generally respected politicians (or at least the profession was respected), that the behaviors that had been adopted were seen as acceptable, and the decline started at that point.
Others say when women entered the workforce during/just after World War II. This is NOT a woman-bashing, or male chauvinistic reasoning. What the argument is (and some of the co-workers are female who agree with this premise) is that women realized they could do the jobs of men (including more of the strenuous physical labor-type); and, thus started the opening of the floodgates of women into the workforce. The fallout was two-fold: first, families started seeing the results of both parents working (there were far fewer single-parent households back then) - resulting in families not establishing what were generally common morals and acceptable behaviors to the children, leaving that up to the younger (and generally less life-experienced) day care centers/babysitters; and, secondly, that we effectively doubled the workforce without creating a proportionate amount of jobs. The latter issue would start the ever-increasing unemployment numbers that still exist today. This, then, was the opening for government subsidy programs, which some argue contribute greatly to the decline of society.
Yet others would say it was the "sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll" of the 60's, where "if it feels good, do it!" was the motto for the day. What that effectively did was start the "turning the head" for immoral behaviors to not only find a foothold, but actually propogate throughout the country as "normal" behaviors. Everything from TV shows to songs on the radio started playing whatever they could for shock value (and sales), but what it also did was lay the underlying notion that there was not a "baseline acceptable" behavior for society. Without that - and forced acceptance of "abnormal behaviors" that followed (by definition, behaviors that were not practiced by the majority of society at that time), society started down the moral/cultural decline that exists today. Now, people are so used to "turning the other cheek" that it's too late to put the proverbial cat back in the bag, and society wouldn't be able to create any sort of "normal" culture or society because bucking the system has become fashionable, even in (or because of) the judiciary system.
Others still have random thoughts of the "me" generation yuppies of the 90's, to the San Francisco hippie/gay rights movements, to drama shows on TV today.
So, are we (as a nation) on a cultural and/or moral downslide that we can't recover from, or are there just a bunch of uptight "old fashioned" people who want to stand in the way of progress? If we are on that downslide, when did it start and can it be stopped (or do we even want it to)?
IMO I think there was an overreaction in the 1960s that lead to a lot of social problems in the last few decades that are even still felt today like broken homes, dead beat parents, and rise of drug use that lead to a lot of the extremely high crime in the 70s and 80s. There have been quite a few documentaries about the bloods and crips street gangs being the decedents of the black panthers after they fell a part when the FBI targeted them because they supported Marxism during the cold war with the US being anticommunist. Also, there are other things as well such as the rise of the christian right with Reagan I believe was in fact a reaction to what happened in the 60's, and what continued onward. With the Christian right trying to bring the country more inline with religion since they viewed the nation as becoming immoral. Whether you loved or hated Reagan I do get why Generation X votes more republican since they grow up when the nuclear family was declining in the United States. So to sum it up the cultural wars that we have in the United States are due to the 60s since the far left and far right have been fighting each other since then to have there vision of America come to pass with most people in between the extremes not wanting either vision to come to pass.
As far as standing in the way of progress goes the extremes of both sides are to blame. Nuclear energy used to power a higher percentage of are grid but due to the left with the antinuclear and environmental movements we haven't built a new nuclear reactor in 30 years and are no longer the global leader when it comes to nuclear energy and technology. We have countries like France that use nuclear energy to power most of their country and due so much cheaper then we do. On the right we have creationists that view evolution as wrong which flies in the face of scientific research.
When it comes to whether we are on a moral downslide and/or cultural downslide goes I would have to say yes and no to both. As far as morality goes we are lot more tolerant then we use to be as a nation. The most obvious example would be Obama would never have been elected President if he was alive and ran to become President in the 1950s. Yet on the other hand I'd say elitism and tribalism is on the rise in the United States. With people taking a more hardline view of others depending on where they live. With the north and south still viewing each other negatively and urban vs rural negative views of each other.
Looking at culture its hard to say in any seriousness that we are not the most dominate culture on the planet. Are culture touches literally almost every single person on the planet. That's not to say its a great thing though. Hollywood movies the majority of Americans agree aren't very representative of the overall United States so we do send a bit of a false image around the world via Hollywood. In fact when we look at polling done asking "what is your favorite thing about American culture?" Other countries list movies at the top with Americans listing movies at the bottom. Even on here we have people listing things negatively that they don't like about TV shows they view as showing either spreading a false image and leading to cultural and/or moral decay in society. Or, them being accurate showing our moral and cultural decay.
Now looking at what could and/or should be done goes the best thing IMO would be for the extremes on both the left and right to calm down since politics affects everything and that would be the healthiest thing for the nation at the moment. Some things like the Nuclear family I don't think there is anything that actually can be done. Unless you are making around 100k a year and even that depends on where you live you aren't going to be able to support your wife to stay at home with the kids while they are growing up. Its just not as doable as it was in the 1950s. If it could be done and your wife wants to stay at home and raise the kids then I'd say go for it since the kids would most likely be better off with one parent around them and being able to be more active in their lives vs just leaving them with a baby sitter. Unfortunately, that's not really possible for most Americans at this point.
Anyway that's my two cents for whatever its worth.
I'm not going to get into the rest of the propaganda posted by you I'll just answer this one part of your comment. The reason the US is no longer seen as the moral beacon as it was say in the 90's is due mostly to the Iraq War and great recession. If you look at polling done since that time period though it has shown that the view of the United States from abroad has been getting better since then. Also if you look at the history of the United States and the views of people in other countries about it you'll see swings in positive and negative views about it. Going back throughout are history.
Propaganda? I'm not Voice of America, State Department or Talk Radio Head to have a shot on propaganda. It's just my opinion. And, nope, Iraq war has little to do with anything. The main reason why American image is getting bleaker every year is because the things USA represents are getting less and less appealing to the world. Most importantly:
1) Image of the Western consumer society is no longer synonymous with paradise in 2nd and 3rd world. People tasted it, accepted as unavoidable for now, but few really like commodification & codification of all aspects of existence, rat race, all permeating anxiety, insecurity and fear, stupendous inequality and no trespassing signs on every corner etc.. Ecological and resource limitations cast further doubts on the image and desirability.
2) Perception of American democracy changed quite a bit also. It's no longer perceived as a nearly perfect way to run society on the behalf of the people. Increasingly American democracy is synonymous with the skillful art of media manipulation of the pre-dumbed populace to achieve the goals of the oligarchical elites while avoiding direct & honest repression.
3) American mass culture (and its domestic clones) no longer perceived as "high art and rebellion" by the previously isolated 2nd & 3rd world (it used to mean a lot to many). Increasingly, mass cult is perceived for what it is - mindless brain filler and illusions for less than bright folks. No, I don't say that mass cult is boycotted or something, it just doesn't mean "another world", it doesn't mean anything except mindless illusion. Reminder, images of another world delivered by mass cult were crucial for demise of USSR
4) Belief in technological fixes, progress, free markets is getting sourer around the world. America used to represent the idea of scientific management (of everything and everybody) and technological progress. However, Prozac in drinking water, Frankenstein foods on the shelves, plastic McMansions, cheap consumer junk, ugly clothes, disposable people etc. don't inspire awe and confidence. "Free market" is pretty much synonymous with concentration of wealth and rule of oligarchy (everywhere except USA naturally).
I don't think that it's USA changed that much ideologically in the past 50 years. World has changed. "American way" was sold as a panacea to the rest of the world seeking alternatives to "communism" and totalitarianism. Unfortunately, people discovered that magic American pill causes powerful side effects while offering mostly illusions instead of a real cure. It appears that potentially deadly side-effects of the American pill are hard to impossible to treat. Disillusionment and disappointment are natural human reactions to reality. Honeymoon of world with America is over, yet, nobody come up with an alternative. Everybody is just muddling through apathetically.
Last edited by RememberMee; 03-20-2012 at 01:36 AM..
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