Lawsuit: Black nurses barred from treating baby at parent's request. (Limbaugh, Obama)
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I'd just like to offer a comment of my own. There is no rational basis for such a request, but the patient's request should be honored. The hospital exists to serve the patient; patients do not exist to serve the hospital. If I am uncomfortable with a nurse, or do not want to be treated by a particular nurse, then another nurse that I am comfortable with should be provided, no matter what the reason is. Any hospital stay, particularly childbirth, is an intimate and stressful experience, and the last thing patients need is for hostile perspectives to be rammed down their throat.
Have you followed this discussion at all? Honestly, after reading your comments its pretty hard to imagine.The problem is your opinion ignores the law. It ignores a clear legal mandate established by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and specific courts decisions that have addressed this very problem. You don't seem to be able to differentiate between what you think "the law ought to be" and "what the law actually says."
This very issue has not only been addressed by Congress in the aforementioned Civil Rights Act, its been addressed by the United States Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals in a case involving very similar facts. See Chaney v. Plainfield Health Care Center, 612 F.3d 908 (CA7, 2010) In this case, the court ruled that a skilled nursing facility violated Title VII when it allowed a patient to specify the color of the nurse he wanted attending him. It was a unanimous decision by a 3 judge panel. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review the case which is their way of saying they agreed with the lower court's decision.
Do you guys get it? You have an opinion about what the law is and how it ought to work. You've lost. Your opinion of what the law ought to be has been rejected by Congress and by the federal courts.
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Just speaking for myself, if a hospital forced me or my newborn baby to be treated by nurses I'm not comfortable with, and did not honor my wishes, then I would never patronize that particular hospital again. It's not the sort of behavior I'm looking for in any business or other establishment.
What you don't seem to get is that quality medical care is not about giving the patient "everything he wants". What its about is giving the patient competent care, by licensed providers. Making a patient comfortable is a reasonable goal of healthcare. Its no longer "reasonable" when that patient makes a request that is illegal. This patient made an illegal request.
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As for the lawsuit, as far as I'm concerned no wrong was committed aside from bad taste. This nurse is operating under the assumption that she has the right to treat patients and their babies even if the patient says no, which is the very essence of slavery. The ultimate court verdict is less clear, but I'd say the cards are stacked in the favor of the black nurses.
The only thing unclear about this lawsuit is the amount of damages that should be awarded. Liability for this action is a virtual given. I personally think where supervisors promptly fix a bad decision that damages ought to be held to a minimum
Your analogy to slavery is not a valid one. The patient could elect not to come to the hospital at all.
Anyway, I'm going to try and get out of this discussion. There are too many who seem to believe that their opinion is more important than the actual law is. Those of us understand that have made that point time and time again.
We don't have to agree with all the laws in our society. We do have to obey them. It isn't worth continuing this discussion with people who think obeying the law is "optional" or a "choice" they have a right to make. Its beyond frustrating to me to imagine that a substantial body of people think they have the right to pick and choose which laws they wish to obey.
Last edited by markg91359; 02-23-2013 at 09:07 AM..
The hospital is denying that this happened. As it's written, I'm leaning towards believing the nurse who filed the suit. Apparently she's worked there for 25 years; why would she make such a thing up? Hopefully justice will prevail as there surely must be many witnesses to what was put into a patient's chart.
For the record, this is the big city hospital in a majority-black city, there are many people of color on the staff and there doesn't seem to be any history of racism there
If this actually happened, then I believe the hospital acted in a truly reprehensible manner and should be sued. And I probably can't say here what I think of the father who allegedly made such a request.
But did they actually break any laws? What are they being sued for? Apart from creating a toxic and insulting atmosphere for the black staff and complying with an egregiously bigoted request, that is.
Thoughts?
This is bizarre. I'm biased because I hate bigots, so you might know what my thoughts on this would be.
But did they actually break any laws? What are they being sued for? Apart from creating a toxic and insulting atmosphere for the black staff and complying with an egregiously bigoted request, that is.
Thoughts?
Creating a hostile environment relates to race or gender in and of itself is illegal.
You can't honor a racist request without breaking the law. Period.
Well said, nissik999. Very succinct and well said. Now, if there are still folks who are debating the law that was made Law of the Land back in 1964, a law that most Americans of every race treasures as land mark decisions that uphold the preamble of the United States Constitution.
Most Americans are proud of this decision. We are also proud of others. Loving v. Virginia, which upheld the right of a White man to marry a Black woman, and Brown v, the board of education which enforced desegregation in the schools. Although it would be a while until law was made reality. And today we are still working on it, it seems.
It is sad that today in 2012 that there are so many people who are still attempting to debate this.
I am sure there isn't a question asking you if you want a black or white physician.
Yes, I think that question has been made clear. As for me, I want the best physician, nurse, or health care practitioner assigned to my family and to my loved ones. I do not care about their race, religion or what have you.
I see gender discrimination in the medical field all the time and it is almost 100% against men.
It is very common for female patients to request all female surgical teams... in 22 years, I have never heard of a male request for a male surgical team.
Sometimes Religion is in the mix and most times it is just a female patient doesn't want to be under anesthesia in the presence of males.
A very good friend is a male OBYGYN nurse... he found bias against him almost insurmountable and this was based solely on being a male because the objections would come in never having met him...
There is a double standard too... because male doctors are viewed much differently than a male nurse for the most part.
My friend is now a charge nurse in the unit and it is no longer the problem it once was...
Not really any difference under the law between Gender Discrimination and Race Discrimination
I see gender discrimination in the medical field all the time and it is almost 100% against men.
It is very common for female patients to request all female surgical teams... in 22 years, I have never heard of a male request for a male surgical team.
Sometimes Religion is in the mix and most times it is just a female patient doesn't want to be under anesthesia in the presence of males.
A very good friend is a male OBYGYN nurse... he found bias against him almost insurmountable and this was based solely on being a male because the objections would come in never having met him...
There is a double standard too... because male doctors are viewed much differently than a male nurse for the most part.
My friend is now a charge nurse in the unit and it is no longer the problem it once was...
Not really any difference under the law between Gender Discrimination and Race Discrimination
Technically a patient can't refuse a male caregiver. The law only allows for a female witness. They can only refuse care and go get care elsewhere.
However, many males will accommodate this because most women are not doing it because they dislike males but because they truly ARE embarrassed.
Yet, when it comes down to emergencies those women WILL allow men to care for them.
Not really discrimination.
And it is not actually the facility accommodating this. I, along with my fellow nurses, routinely swap patients for this reason.
I've even had patients that refuse men change their minds later after getting comfortable with you.
This is rarely a major problem outside of OB/GYN and pregnancy centers though.
Those same women have no problem with men in the NICU.
Also, this is rather new. I know very few males that are cuddlers. In my hospital there are exactly 3 of us and the rest are women. We are also the only 3 routinely making appearances in the NICU.
Time will change this as everyone gets comfortable with changing gender roles.
And besides, while I have no problem offending racists, I really don't want to offend people due to their legitimate religious beliefs.
I've had a Muslim family where the female nurses cared for his wife but he wanted me to care for the baby since it was a boy and he thought it would be good luck to have a male nurse. They were recent immigrants and he had never seen a male nurse before. Works for me... Shrug.
Being racist is not the same as being a Muslim. Racism is not a religion, m kay.
Who ever said it was???
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