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A few years ago, Bill Cosby tried to get across to blacks that naming their children certain names was against helping their children. That it burdened them with a name that was hurtful to their future. Some black parents objected to his words and Dr Cosby was right back to being Uncle Tom. It's too bad most won't listen to him. What he said is true. Certain names on a resume will often be put in the trash.
I don't know how to feel about this. On the one hand, if I did name a child, I would give the child a name like Paul, Michael, Jeremiah, Aaron,etc. However my reason would be this: those are Biblical names or after someone famous(like Michael Jackson or Paul McCartney).
On the other hand, I don't want to do something because I feel like it's the only way to fit into a certain society. Furthermore,I have to consider this. There are some people with decidedly ethnic names(mainly Asians and Eastern Europeans) who seem to do well(that I know of). It's mainly Black Americans who seem to be ostracized for this.
I have to look at it like this. On the one hand, if I have children, I would want to give them Biblical names. It is based on my faith. On the other hand, I feel like Blacks have always given their children "non Afro-centric" names and have never been able to assimilate. Giving a child an "Afro-centric" name doesn't help, but even with names like William, Andrew, James,etc, Blacks have gone through crap, and not because of their names. Blacks have been hated from day one.
My viewpoint is this. Do certain names hurt the children? Yes, I would agree with that. But Black people have been hated from the first place. I'm saying that discounting the prejudice doesn't really help either.
The details of your blog are examples of bigoted cartoonish stereotypes. Such rot is not to be taken seriously. End of story.
I agree with this in regards to the blog itself. It is really childish in nature IMO especially when it spoke about taking data from 1997 and then going on to say that that time period has a better reflection of violent crime, which it does, I will agree with that, but that that time period didn't over inflate prison numbers with the drug arrest. 1997 included prisoners who were arrested during the crack epidemic of the 1980s/early 90s. My dad was arrested in a sweep in 89 and was put in jail but was released. Practically of his running buddies were in jail on 25 to life prison sentences in 1997 stemming from their participation in the drug trade. A few of my uncles and many of my cousins also were in jail at that time (step family - they had a criminal element) due to drug trafficking.
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Originally Posted by Pinkmani
They might close this thread because mods become uncomfortable when you talk about black people. Although, the only way to fix the issues in the black community is to discuss them.
A lot of the reason why blacks are locked up stem from not having a stable father. A lot of the time this leads to violence and drug abuse.
Personally, I don't commit crimes because it's illegal and I don't want to go to jail. Some cops are racist. Some black people are just unaware of the impact and damage they do to themselves. I know the stigmas of a black woman; therefore, I make an effort to show others that I'm not anything like that. I dress well, speak properly, etc. It also helps that my parents gave me a "white girl name". I haven't experienced much racism in my life and I'm thankful.
My brother has a "white boy name" and speaks properly. He dresses well and speaks properly. However, he plays football and has a very stocky build, which is intimidating.
I agree in that dysfunction is caused when one doesn't have a stable father. But the rate of OOW births amongst other groups, notably white women has increased at a higher rate than black women since the 1960s. Yet, you do not see higher incidences of crime with white families, so if only single parenting were to blame, one would see higher amounts of violent crime in particular amongst white Americans when that is not the case. In regards to drug abuse, white people have always used drugs and alcohol at high levels than black people. Whites (per FBI statistics) account for 80% of DUI arrest, which blacks only being 10%, which is something considering that black people are stopped for suspected DUI or other "suspicions" more than whites.
So even though I agree black Americans have issues, I cannot attribute those issues primarily to single parenting, even though I do feel this is a huge factor. I especially cannot attribute it at all to drug use.
Also, I am a black woman as well. I don't make any effort to make someone comfortable with me as a black woman. I am who I am. I think I am a decent woman, I am married, I have 2 kids, I own a house and 3 vehicles and am not in debt and I dress okay (not as good as I used to before kids as I am way to busy to focus so much on fashion and hairdos and such). I speak well but will use BVE (black vernacular English) if I feel like it. I don't see trying to impress white people or society at large as anything worth my time and I feel that it potentially diminishes my self worth as a black woman. I personally have no trouble with white people. I grew up in an integrated area, amongst many "Celtic" whites too lol (we had a large Irish population in my hometown, them and the Polish are who lived around me the most). We all got along. They looked at me as a person in our interactions and I felt no different than any other person, even today. We are all people. If someone wants to speak a certain way, I am not going to judge them as a person based on one exchange. I don't care what kind of name someone has.
And FWIW, I have a "white girl name" too but I don't think that makes a difference. I knew black Jennifer's who were ghetto trash just like I knew Jennifer's who were poor white trash. A name does not make a person.
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Originally Posted by Rubi3
A few years ago, Bill Cosby tried to get across to blacks that naming their children certain names was against helping their children. That it burdened them with a name that was hurtful to their future. Some black parents objected to his words and Dr Cosby was right back to being Uncle Tom. It's too bad most won't listen to him. What he said is true. Certain names on a resume will often be put in the trash.
FYI, black people do not see Cosby as an Uncle Tom and that was not a few years ago, it was almost 10 years ago. Black people love Bill Cosby.
Also, Freakonomics showed that the socio-economic status of the parents, not necessarily the name of the child, is a better predictor of their name being a "burden." It is true that someone born to a single mom in a lower income category with an "ethnic" name will have a tougher time than most but someone with an "ethnic" name born to middle income parents or above will not have that name be a burden because education and wealth are better predictors of success than all other factors for all children.
I had a good friend in college who hated her "ghetto" name, but her family was one of the richest in her area and she went to private school her entire life and had a very secure future due to the family business so her name was not a burden to her at all. Her last name especially, due to the associations with it, was a privilege for her to have.
The whole Celtic argument falls apart once you start comparing county-by-county data for ethnic concentration, especially West of the Mississippi. I just spent some time doing this after reading the blog post...in many states with lower incarceration rates for Black people on the map the author provided, Blacks and people of Celtic descent aren't concentrated in the same locations. In some cases, they barely overlap at all.
Methinks this blogger is probably of Celtic descent, engaging in silly stereotypes that benefit his own POV from all angles.
There was a second response I wanted to give. It was mentioned in the article that those of American ancestry might also be people of Celtic descent. Kentucky has the largest percentage people who are of American ancestry. Kentucky has higher than average incarceration rates for both Blacks and Whites.
These are some of the factors that occurred to me, too. As did this (VVV)
All the more reason I mentioned them.
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Agreed. Not only do Black Americans have cultural and family ties to the South, but they are more evenly distributed throughout each southern state than in other parts of the country, by far, and also have the benefit of larger overall numbers. Together, these conditions seem to improve the general conditions of living for Black people. Deeper ties to the community, less artificial concentration, various advantages of being a more substantial percentage of the total population (more power politically, stronger church systems, more historically black colleges, more black-owned businesses, etc.)...all good things. Where there is well-rounded support, there is less anti-social behavior. This applies to most all human categories.
Yes and no. There have been historically Black colleges and universities concentrated in the South. They have served a purpose for education. On the other hand, Blacks have suffered from alot of political disenfranchisement in the past.
Now, if you want to talk about NOW, there are some factors to consider. There are many Blacks who are moving back to the South because of family ties. Family ties help alot. The church helps too. That is very important. I would agree that in a setting where the community is strong, it does contribute to less anti-social behavior. This is something people like "Akinokure", and Steve Sailer do not consider.
I agree with this in regards to the blog itself. It is really childish in nature IMO especially when it spoke about taking data from 1997 and then going on to say that that time period has a better reflection of violent crime, which it does, I will agree with that, but that that time period didn't over inflate prison numbers with the drug arrest. 1997 included prisoners who were arrested during the crack epidemic of the 1980s/early 90s. My dad was arrested in a sweep in 89 and was put in jail but was released. Practically of his running buddies were in jail on 25 to life prison sentences in 1997 stemming from their participation in the drug trade. A few of my uncles and many of my cousins also were in jail at that time (step family - they had a criminal element) due to drug trafficking.
The blog does have alot of stupidity to it, and some really fallacious elements. This is why I wanted to pick it apart. Data from 1997? That is indeed quite stupid. Although Akinokure did account for the drug epidemic, the fact that said data was used(outdated stuff). At that time, Minneapolis was going through the "murderapolis" years. Of course it was going to have one of the highest Black incarceration rates in the nation. Gangs from Chicago and other cities were causing problems for Minneapolis-St. Paul. Minnesota now has one of the lowest Black incarceration rates in the nation.
That blog is from a low-life but I do get the gist of what it's saying.
My response is the type of ghetto-mentality Black people who commits crime, tear down neighborhoods, and are loud, vulgar, and rude in public are the type of people who lack the ability to self-monitor, to be self-disciplined, or restrain themselves. They are impulsive, hyperactive, low on mental stimuli to elevate their minds, and thrive on the mob-mentality. Consequently, they have to bump up against something to make them stop. If they think the Whites around them are mean and racist, they don't "play" with those group of Whites and the word passes quickly among them to not mess with those White "racists". If the Whites are nice and pleasant, the above mentioned type see that as a weakness and they will reign their version of hell everywhere (like a bully) they go until the police intervenes. They lack the ability to stop themselves and must be stopped by fear of man (White racists with a gun), the police, or a non-violent Black person who is willing to show them (the ghetto minded) they're just as crazy as they are if they get rubbed the wrong way.
It seems the south has the least incarceration rates of blacks but maybe there are cultural differences between blacks in most southern states and those in other regions.
For example, the slaves were brought to the south to work and that is where so-called black culture took root and maybe where there is more stability, more "roots", more heritage.
Those who left the south gave up family and regional ties and that may have created more instability.
I definitely agree with this. Compare the average Black person in the south/southwest (Charlotte, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Memphis, etc)with average Black person in NYC, Philly, Trenton, Camden, Baltimore, and the other large urban east coast cities north of Wash DC. Even look at the way they present themselves walking down the street; even the young women with the head "scarf" that should be worn in the privacy of one's home at night for bed are instead being worn in broad daylight in public at stores, walking down the street, on subways, buses. The ties of the scarf end on the top of their head similar to old pictures of Aunt Jemima cleaning the "big" house. East coast Blacks are like night and day from Black people in the South. I'm not saying every single person but I'm saying overall, Blacks in the south carry and present themselves with much more dignity, self-respect, and common sense over all.
You see fewer homeless Blacks in the southern cities than the east coast, fewer homeless-mentally ill on the street in southern cities than east coast cities. Fewer Black people begging for money in the Southern cities than the east coast cities. Black people in the south feel that if a man won't work, he shouldn't eat (comes from the Bible). On the east coast, you'll see more Black people with no shame begging for money and asking for handouts. They feel that is their right. Or maybe they don't know any better and have never seen better.
IMO, that is because there is not a family safety net or if it is, it's usually not as strong like it is among Black southerners. Also, there are more Black fathers, grandfathers, and uncles in southern Black families which provide balance, leadership or shared leadership, bring assets to a family. There is more land, more space, and homes.
On the east coast, among African-American it's mostly Black mothers, grandmothers, and aunts upholding the family. So many people are crammed into buildings on top of each other, with little personal space, and families can only rent the building long-term but not own the building or the land. The families are very female-heavy as far as leadership, homeownership, employment, paying the bills, raising the children, etc. Most of them do not have respect for men because the men have not done anything for which the women feel is respectable. These families lack a balanced male perspective and input. When there are males present, a lot of times they're more of a liability to the family than an asset (in jail or recently released, constantly in trouble, unemployed, won't stay in school, won't finish college, usually go the drug-route-in-search of making quick money but it never pays off for them or their family in the end). Sad but true.
That blog is from a low-life but I do get the gist of what it's saying.
My response is the type of ghetto-mentality Black people who commits crime, tear down neighborhoods, and are loud, vulgar, and rude in public are the type of people who lack the ability to self-monitor, to be self-disciplined, or restrain themselves. They are impulsive, hyperactive, low on mental stimuli to elevate their minds, and thrive on the mob-mentality. Consequently, they have to bump up against something to make them stop. If they think the Whites around them are mean and racist, they don't "play" with those group of Whites and the word passes quickly among them to not mess with those White "racists". If the Whites are nice and pleasant, the above mentioned type see that as a weakness and they will reign their version of hell everywhere (like a bully) they go until the police intervenes. They lack the ability to stop themselves and must be stopped by fear of man (White racists with a gun), the police, or a non-violent Black person who is willing to show them (the ghetto minded) they're just as crazy as they are if they get rubbed the wrong way.
It could be. But then there is another side to this. You have some people who are very angry, hateful, and don't care if they live or die. One thing to consider is that if Whites can get guns, so can Blacks. And the thing with criminals of any race is that many will get guns via illegitimate means.
The article basically said that the only thing that would scare Black people are the "scary" kind of White people. And if this is applied to Black criminals, this could be applied to criminals of every ethnicity. If the "scary" types could stop them, then so could the police.
And there is something else I want to expound on. Texas has alot of people with guns, and there are some scary racists living there. There is also a fair amount of crime taking place, as well as one of the highest rates of imprisonment in the nation, among both Blacks and Whites.
There is something else I want to add. There was a comparison made between Milwaukee and Boston. It was basically "Milwaukee the German city" and "Boston the Irish city", and basically said that it was Boston that was the "anti-Black place". Well, if one digs in at Milwaukee's history, one could say the same about that city as well. There was a time when if you were Black and you tried to walk into certain neighborhoods, you could get beaten up by White gangs. When Fr. James Groppi, a Catholic priest, was leading civil rights marches to end housing discrimination in Milwaukee. He lead the march through Kosciuszko Park, and White protesters became violent. A similar event happened in Chicago.
Now, there is something else to consider, that the writer never consider, and something I've been holding off of speaking about until now. It is true that much of the prison population in the USA is Black, and mainly from the cities. One other thing to consider is that the Black prison population is most likely American. Foreign-born Blacks have a much lower incarceration rate than American Blacks. Boston has alot of foreign-born Blacks, especially Jamaicans and Cape Verdeans. That was never considered.
There are many factors to consider. That is part of my point.
"I have not read the blog, but just for clarification is it or are you trying to say blacks benefit in certain areas inhabited by particular ethnic groups of whites?"
I don't understand the justification of name discrimination. If your kid is named a non acceptable Euro American name and are discriminated against it is not the name that is really the wall to success. People who discriminate based on names and hair or dress are saying you are not a part of the group(whatever group they claim identity with). They are trying to weed out who is not White enough for them, but even if you passed the name game you would still have to meet them in-person at the interview and they could come up with another excuse then, or just not call you back. I am all for maintaining or creating (in the case of African-Americans) ethnic specific names, dress, hairstyles. We are not White and should never attempt to assimilate one way. Every culture touches some part of our very large society and it will never be and has never been a one type of European American America. Many of the issues we have today are due to forced assimilation(in public education particularly).
As for crime, I think a large part has to do with economics and partly to do with mind set. As was said earlier, when there are less familial or community connections people feel more individualistic and care less about the consequences of their actions on a community. I live in Maryland and although it's a southern state and there are Churches on every corner, there is not the same type of community connection that may have existed in the 60s when the church was a center of social justice. Most of the African Americans I know aren't Abrahamic Faith followers, are non religious, practice African traditional faiths, Euro pagan faiths, Asian faiths, or some blend, but most don't go to church. In my community we have a very hateful relationship with the church across the street. There is an extreme disconnect. So I think we need to recreate some community feel to attach crime from within and hold those in our community accountable.
On another point, I think the time of African Americans being afraid of "scary whites" has passed. Non violence approaches proved unsuccessful and I don't know any one who wants to try those out in the face of violence. We as African Americans need to hold those in our community tearing us down accountable. If they are harming the community they are enemies of the community and should be shunned and turned over to the police.
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