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Well there maybe something to the idea (not the blog because I did not read it), and I was wondering if you felt the same way.If we were to assume a particular ethnic group of whites were more helpful to blacks, say the Irish/Celts for example, it may some some validity. Irish in general, and Irish Catholics in particular have faced their fair share of discrimination from both the British in Ireland (still in the North of Ireland to this day), and when they came to America. Signs were routinely posted for housing, jobs and even places to eat that read, "No Dogs or Irish Allowed". So if the Irish have a an extra willingness to help or can better understand what blacks have gone through, it might translate into more opportunities or help from them. Thoughts?
That could be, but that may not have been the case with the Irish-Americans in Boston. After the Irish wrestled political power from the old school Yankees, they tended to view the black community as competition and were at best indifferent, if not hostile, to black people there. Remember the busing riots in the 1970s?
From what I've read, he isn't of Celtic descent. Aside from that, that is something of note. Alot of places with people of Celtic descent, there aren't large numbers of Blacks living there. Consider Rhode Island. There is a large population of people who are a Celtic descent, mostly Irish. Low Black imprisonment rate. However, Connecticut is home to a larger Irish population. if you include Scottish and Scotch-Irish populations, Connecticut has a larger population of people who are of Celtic descent. CT has a much higher Black imprisonment rates. The Black to White ratio of incarceration is 12, the 4th highest in the nation.
And then take Hawaii, the lowest Black imprisonment rate in the nation. Very few White people in Hawaii compared to most states, and the largest ancestry for Whites in Hawaii is German.
Steve Sailer, or Agnostic, the author of the blog post? I was referring to Agnostic, whose identity isn't detailed in his/her profile. Sailer is a German name originally, also occasionally found among Ashkenazic Jews. That's minor to my point, but for clarity, I wasn't referring to Sailer. I don't agree with some of his views, but I don't see him as a silly person.
Anyway, sounds like you're finding the same sort of problems I do with this particular claim. It's just too broad of a generalization, and concentrates only on states where, from a distance, the theory appears to hold up. Not sound social science.
That could be, but that may not have been the case with the Irish-Americans in Boston. After the Irish wrestled political power from the old school Yankees, they tended to view the black community as competition and were at best indifferent, if not hostile, to black people there. Remember the busing riots in the 1970s?
I concur with this. There was alot of friction between the Irish-American population and Blacks. And I know about the busing riots of the 70s. I particularly remember the picture of a Black man nearly being speared with a flag pole.
There were also racial tensions between Blacks and other ethnic groups as well. In some places like Detroit and Chicago, there were tensions between Blacks and Polish-Americans. There were also tensions between Blacks and Italian-Americans in New York City, particularly Brooklyn.
Steve Sailer, or Agnostic, the author of the blog post? I was referring to Agnostic, whose identity isn't detailed in his/her profile. Sailer is a German name originally, also occasionally found among Ashkenazic Jews. That's minor to my point, but for clarity, I wasn't referring to Sailer. I don't agree with some of his views, but I don't see him as a silly person.
Anyway, sounds like you're finding the same sort of problems I do with this particular claim. It's just too broad of a generalization, and concentrates only on states where, from a distance, the theory appears to hold up. Not sound social science.
I didn't know Sailer was a German name.
The person I'm referring to is Agnostic(aka Akinokure). He quoted part of Steve Sailer.
I found the post to be too broad sweeping and generalizing as well. In addition, alot of the data was flawed too. I tend to find Akinokure silly because of his broad-sweeping generalizations. And the county level data, well, I say it could have been clearer. One could tell this person had an agenda.
One thing you must know is this. I have a bit of an individualistic streak. My view is this. with every statistic, there are individuals involved.
The person I'm referring to is Agnostic(aka Akinokure). He quoted part of Steve Sailer.
I found the post to be too broad sweeping and generalizing as well. In addition, alot of the data was flawed too. I tend to find Akinokure silly because of his broad-sweeping generalizations. And the county level data, well, I say it could have been clearer. One could tell this person had an agenda.
One thing you must know is this. I have a bit of an individualistic streak. My view is this. with every statistic, there are individuals involved.
I'm one of those people, too. That's why my first response was to start drilling a little closer to micro level. I just didn't have to drill very far.
My education and training is in social work and sociology. The latter deals more with generalizations, of course, but the former considers social problems at every level of an individual's ecosystem, including the individual him/herself. That's why articles like this really gall me. There are too many layers to every individual's ecosystem to make such definitive statements from the topmost level(s) only. Especially ones that would attribute the behavior of any individual or group so completely to another, unrelated segment of the population.
Yeah, I would have thought Sailer would be English, but I have Jewish Sailers in my family and the origins of the name came up in a family genealogy project. Interesting: Some say Jews took to the name Sailer because it is an anagram for "Israel". I tend to doubt it, since Jews in middle Europe were pretty much assigned their surnames by non-Jewish local authorities back in the day.
Residinghere,Yours was a good post and well worth reading! There's so much I could comment on but I'm short on time and for brevity's sake, I'll keep my response shorter than I'd like too. I haven't been to ATL in about 3-4 years but have been in ATL and through ATL (driving) many times. I hadn't seen large percentages of homeless and beggars there during my visits; which may mean nothing since living there trumps my visitor's perspective. I don't disagree that possibly the Blacks that stayed behind in the south were possibly not as "progressive minded" as those who fled north during the great Black migration. However, that was 40, 50, 60+ years ago. Generations have come and gone since that time. Times have changed as have the people. Black people in northern states and especially the east coast (where I live) are not better off than southern Blacks in this day and age. Further, for the most part the posterity of those who moved up north, Midwest, and east coast have all but lost the gains that had been made by the earlier generations. Most of those urban cities are wastelands of crime, violence, and under-performing schools. This is primary due to two reasons: 1) circumstances beyond Black people's control such as the economy, industries shifting from labor intensive to computerized automated methods, companies moving their production work to China. 2) The second reason is backward thinking/bad decision-making/poor life-choices among so many Black people. Many, even during their teen years with no or little work experience look down on lower paying jobs in favor of making quick money (drugs) knowing that most people who do this have a short violent life span or end up in prison sooner rather than later. Many look down on and mock the value of education (especially males). Another example of backward decision making is favoring designer labels and expensive footwear (such as sneakers) to base one's self-worth and self-value on instead of building character and valuing one's self based on that. But, the biggest decision that has set Blacks back is having children out-of-wedlock as a lifestyle choice. The reverberations from this lifestyle has hurt Black people, but males especially, overall more so than anything else, IMO.
you said ---- I will confess to the mortal sin of not believing that all people and cultures are inherently equal. I believe otherwise because the history of the world and the world's current conditions don't support that hypothesis. The differences can be explained by a wide variety of factors: environment, culture, biology,
.My response ----I agree, although I do not believe in evolution but creation. However, I think all cultures are inherently unequal for a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is due to free-will. Not every culture values the same things and that is ok. That is what makes the world go around. It's called free-will. All peoples collectively have free-will: the choice to value something or not. However, culture A should not complain when they don't have or haven't been able to obtain the advancements that culture B has. Especially since culture A is not/was not willing to do what culture B did nor made the sacrifices culture B to get where they are. I've said this very simplistically but it should be translated according to the differences of the cultures.
Well there maybe something to the idea (not the blog because I did not read it), and I was wondering if you felt the same way.If we were to assume a particular ethnic group of whites were more helpful to blacks, say the Irish/Celts for example, it may some some validity. Irish in general, and Irish Catholics in particular have faced their fair share of discrimination from both the British in Ireland (still in the North of Ireland to this day), and when they came to America. Signs were routinely posted for housing, jobs and even places to eat that read, "No Dogs or Irish Allowed". So if the Irish have a an extra willingness to help or can better understand what blacks have gone through, it might translate into more opportunities or help from them. Thoughts?
I didn't read the blog that way. I thought the blog was saying not that the Irish were more "helpful" to Blacks but more "racist" or mean-spirited toward Blacks. This behavior, of the Irish, caused Blacks to be more cautious, fearful of a potential attack, so they were not as apt to bring crime to Irish neighborhoods nor act as ghetto (outlandish or out of control) around the Irish Whites because the Irish is/was more likely to retaliate vigilante mob-style and don't feel sorry for Blacks' past history nor care about Blacks labeling them "racist".
Steve Sailer, or Agnostic, the author of the blog post? I was referring to Agnostic, whose identity isn't detailed in his/her profile. Sailer is a German name originally, also occasionally found among Ashkenazic Jews. That's minor to my point, but for clarity, I wasn't referring to Sailer. I don't agree with some of his views, but I don't see him as a silly person.
Anyway, sounds like you're finding the same sort of problems I do with this particular claim. It's just too broad of a generalization, and concentrates only on states where, from a distance, the theory appears to hold up. Not sound social science.
Steve Sailer? He is well-known for peddling pseudo-scientific theories on race. He travels in the same circles as Jared Taylor of American Renaissance, a white supremacist (or "racialist" publication, as well as so-called scholars such as the late J. Philippe Ruston, whose "studies" on race and intelligence has pretty much been repudiated by the mainstream academic community, and Richard Lynn.
Glad that you and others have caught on to the faulty arguments and questionable basis which Sailer and his fellow travelers make.
Me, as well. Even more so, when others accept pseudo-intellectual claptrap as reputable research and reporting, linking it into their blogs, or on websites such as this one. I'm not sure of the motive of the OP, but if does seem that if he afforded some merit to the source article. It doesn't seem that the OP started this thread. as an example of how stupid and overreaching some purportedly reasoned article can be.
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Great post -- a good read!
publication, as well as so-called scholars such as the late J. Philippe Ruston, whose "studies" on race and intelligence has pretty much been repudiated by the mainstream academic community, and Richard Lynn.