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Old 10-27-2013, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Probably not. However, I suspect the fact that it's illegal speaks to not wanting to go to prison.

I'm personally scared of prison. Not only would my life be ruined, I might not survive prison(prison isn't safe). I have other reasons. I don't want to let my parents down. Plus, with my faith, there are just certain things I'm not going to do.

It was not quoting you, actually. Another poster.

 
Old 10-27-2013, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
It was not quoting you, actually. Another poster.
I know that. I was partly talking about the other poster. I was saying it mostly likely wasn't her only reason. She probably has other reasons.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
This is very unfortunate, that racial or blood or ethnic conversations can not be kept civilized. Avoiding them or closing eyes and pretending they are not there, is like saying - there is no pine trees in this forest (it's every other tree there indeed).
Reality of life is - races and ehtnicities ARE out there. They are all different and have their own traits, inclinations, features and behaviors. It is a straight fact pf life. But, somewhere down the road, decision was made not to talk about this, or try to say - all people are same and equal. Which is a simple myth.
But, as a result, freedom of speech becomes a joke. Like it said in a very nice article: "We all know who and what we can not talk about".
Well, consider this. Alot of people are set out on bashing other races and ethnicities. And then there are those who have to defend themselves against such attackers.

And then there is this. Within every race and ethnicity, you have individuals. Alot of people want to be defined by their individual merit, not their race.

To suggest that a person is the way he/she is because he/she is of a certain race suggest that said person has not ability to reason, no ability to make decisions, to suggest that said person has no individual responsibility.

And there is something else. The article that I posted, what bothered me is this. Said person was basically saying "Blacks are savages and require other people scaring them in order to behave". I'm Black and I don't erquire any of that. The fear of prison, the fear of letting my parents down, and my own faith are what is keeping me from doing horrible stuff. Not having a nihilistic mentality is part of it too.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 02:55 PM
 
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Sure. This is mostly because of human nature.
Now, here's the thing. Historically speaking, there are 2 things you likely to agree with.
1. Races and ethnicity DO have particular traits. As a WHOLE. Agreed? That within WHOLE there is a different Self, does not change what WHOLE is. I am half Ukrainian, half not sure what. I can clearly see where I am "of Ukrainian descent", as I do follow common traits with other Ukrainians yet, same time, I do stand out in many respects, as I chose not be one "to the end". What YOU saying, is actually quite an overstatement. There is always choice. Nothing is carved in stone. Black race appears to be a leading edge race back in forgotten history, but what happened? As a race, it fell from stars to where whites found them. Was it whites fault, or black race made a decision to follow a particular path? As a WHOLE?
2. I feel, concerns that you have, about stereotypes, are valid of course. But let me ask you this. Didn't humanity have anything better to do, than to come up with them? Are ALL of them completely baseless and groundless and made up? Or there are, or have been some grounds for them, maybe later over exaggerated, blown out of proportion, yet - they did occur? Say, why is it, that anywhere Jews settled for longer time, they become hated? And this was going on since times unknown. Very smart, very hard working ethnicity. But fact stays. See my point?
 
Old 10-27-2013, 03:03 PM
 
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Now for the picking apart. The author used some outdated date. The Black imprisonment rate map is from 1997. Crime rates were much higher then.

The most accurate data I could find was from 2005(at least by state): http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc...dethnicity.pdf

Top 10 states with highest Black incarceration rates.

South Dakota
Wisconsin
Iowa
Vermont
Utah
Montana
Colorado
Arizona
Oklahoma
Texas

There is something to consider. The states with the 10 highest Black incarceration rates, 4 have among the highest White incarceration rates: Oklahoma, Texas, Arizona, and Colorado.

Among the states with the 10 lowest Black incarceration rates(DC doesn't count because it isn't a state).

Hawaii
Maryland
New York
Massachusetts
North Carolina
Mississippi
Rhode Island
Arkansas
South Carolina
Alabama

Out of those states, 4 have the lowest White incarceration rates: New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Maryland.

One part of this could be that some states with high incarceration rates among Blacks also lock up Whites at higher levels than the national average. Idaho has one of the lowest incarceration disparities between Blacks and Whites. However, it also locks up more Blacks and Whites than the national average. The same goes for Oklahoma and Nevada.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 03:06 PM
 
73,174 posts, read 63,013,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Sure. This is mostly because of human nature.
Now, here's the thing. Historically speaking, there are 2 things you likely to agree with.
1. Races and ethnicity DO have particular traits. As a WHOLE. Agreed? That within WHOLE there is a different Self, does not change what WHOLE is. I am half Ukrainian, half not sure what. I can clearly see where I am "of Ukrainian descent", as I do follow common traits with other Ukrainians yet, same time, I do stand out in many respects, as I chose not be one "to the end". What YOU saying, is actually quite an overstatement. There is always choice. Nothing is carved in stone. Black race appears to be a leading edge race back in forgotten history, but what happened? As a race, it fell from stars to where whites found them. Was it whites fault, or black race made a decision to follow a particular path? As a WHOLE?
2. I feel, concerns that you have, about stereotypes, are valid of course. But let me ask you this. Didn't humanity have anything better to do, than to come up with them? Are ALL of them completely baseless and groundless and made up? Or there are, or have been some grounds for them, maybe later over exaggerated, blown out of proportion, yet - they did occur? Say, why is it, that anywhere Jews settled for longer time, they become hated? And this was going on since times unknown. Very smart, very hard working ethnicity. But fact stays. See my point?
I don't agree with all of this. Things happen because things get done to other, and because of cultures. At one time, Blacks were doing much better. Africa is also a very large continent. One thing to do is read up on history. See how things work. And I feel like stereotypes are only valid for those who perpetrate them. If you perpetrate that stereotype, then it's valid for you. If you don't, it isn't valid for you. I think individualistically, so some of what you are saying is often oppose to what you might be saying.

I would disagree the idea that the reason one commits a crime is because of a person being of a certain race. If that was the case, I would be a criminal myself. I know some people who happen to be Black, who went into crime. And those individuals all had these things in common: They weren't being raised right, they identified with a violent subculture, and had an "I don't care" mentality.

Anyway, I was talking about this particular blog entry.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 03:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Is that the only deterrent for you from committing a crime?
Well, it's also because most of the illegal things in this country are morally wrong. For instance, I don't have a problem with prostitution, but I couldn't be a prostitute.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 03:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmani View Post
Well, it's also because most of the illegal things in this country are morally wrong. For instance, I don't have a problem with prostitution, but I couldn't be a prostitute.
The morally wrong part is a big reason why I don't do certain things. I'm not going do things such as: rape, rob stores, kill people,etc. Those things are repugnant and disgusting. You won't see me doing those things.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 03:27 PM
 
73,174 posts, read 63,013,624 times
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Another thing to pick apart is this. Saying that law enforcement, well, it depends on how law enforcement is applied. Minneapolis was known as "murderapolis" in the 1990s. Today, the murder rate is much lower. It took some work to get the murder rate down.
 
Old 10-27-2013, 05:56 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,905,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
This is meant to be a discussion about a blog entry I found. This is not meant to be a troll thread. The point of this thread is to have a civilized conversation about this, and to get a perspective.

I read a blog entry about crime and Black Americans. This is the link to that blog entry by Akinokure: Dusk in Autumn: Are blacks scared straight by the law or by hell-raisin' whites?


This blog entry is talking about the imprisonment rates of Black Americans by state. The author of this blog believes that having a large population of Whites with Celtic ancestry is the main factor in a lower Black imprisonment rate.

To sum this blog entry up(I don't really want to repeat the title), the writer basically says that Blacks are somehow more inherently prone/unable to behave and require violent and scary people to keep them in line. The very last sentence said "Sometimes it takes barbarians to deter a savage". Basically, I think the writer was referring to Blacks as "savages" and referring to Whites of Celtic descent as "barbarians", which I find quite disgusting.

Personally, I disagree with alot of this, because it isn't as simple as the writer tries to make it out to be. And it suggests that Blacks as somehow "inferior" and "inherently bad". It started out as a comparison between Milwaukee and Boston, (Milwaukee having a large German heritage and Boston having a large Irish heritage) and turned into a national comparison. I think there is more here than meets the eye. There are way more factors than race and ethnicity. I just want to see what the different perspectives are. That is what this thread is for.
Interesting article but I don't agree with the conclusions of it.

It seems the south has the least incarceration rates of blacks but maybe there are cultural differences between blacks in most southern states and those in other regions.

For example, the slaves were brought to the south to work and that is where so-called black culture took root and maybe where there is more stability, more "roots", more heritage.

Those who left the south gave up family and regional ties and that may have created more instability.
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