Which Immigrants Are The Quickest To Assimilate? (Hispanic, bias, examples)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Moderator cut: Off Topic If some one comes from a continent with the highest levels of illiteracy on this planet, clearly they represent an educated elite. Not some indication that Africans perform better, because were this the case there wouldn't be so many illiterates in Africa.
Moderator cut: Off Topic Yes, I'm aware that African immigrants represent an educated elite, just as do Chinese and Indian immigrants. I merely said that in my experience, many or most African immigrants (I work in an area where there are many) tend to be well educated and ambitious. Nevertheless, there are tens of millions of desperately poor, illiterate Chinese, Indians, and Africans who have no way of emigrating, even if they wanted to. That's why I always roll my eyes at haughty Asians who love to give the impression that all Chinese and Indians have advanced degrees.
Moderator cut: Off Topic you might be interested in the data that indicates that African immigrants do, in fact, perform better than average:
Moderator cut: Off Topic Yes, I'm aware that African immigrants represent an educated elite, just as do Chinese and Indian immigrants. I merely said that in my experience, many or most African immigrants (I work in an area where there are many) tend to be well educated and ambitious. Nevertheless, there are tens of millions of desperately poor, illiterate Chinese, Indians, and Africans who have no way of emigrating, even if they wanted to. That's why I always roll my eyes at haughty Asians who love to give the impression that all Chinese and Indians have advanced degrees.
Moderator cut: Off Topic you might be interested in the data that indicates that African immigrants do, in fact, perform better than average:
OK so we established that the immigrants Africa sends to the USA are the most representative of their educational elites, than is true for other immigrant sending nations. So explain this to me.
If the immigrants from Africa are MORE confined to its educational elites than is immigration from other sources, wouldn't Africans not be the most educated immigrant group? So why is the fact that they are the most educated immigrant group, and in fact considerably more educated than WHITE Americans, some indicator of their success?
It is an indicator of who is ABLE to MIGRATE to the USA. NOTHING MORE!
But your first link seriously undermines your argument of success, and in fact corresponds to my experience with Africans. I have used taxis driven by Africans. In almost no instance was the driver uneducated. In fact some were even ENGINEERS, so weren't intellectual slouches. Yet they were driving taxis.
This is in fact reflected in your link which indicates that Africans face a number of obstacles, INCLUDING RACISM, in translating their high levels of education into high household median earnings.
Your point in fact suggests that African immigrants are NOT successful, as they have been LESS able to translate their higher levels of education into forms of employment which utilizes this.
In fact a comparison of African immigrants with the considerably LESS educated black immigrants from the Caribbean, indicates that they aren't doing better, and in fact in certain measures, they do WORSE. Note that the Caribbean data includes immigrants from Haiti, the DR, and Cuba, where educational levels achieved trail that of migrants from the English speaking Caribbean.
In fact Nigerians, the MOST educated African group, have household median incomes only slightly higher than Jamaicans, despite having double the % of college graduates!
The FACT is that Africans gain NO ADVANTAGE, when compared to others, of being more likely to arrive as college graduates, or arrive in the USA to attend college. It is therefore immaterial as to what their opinion of black Americans might be!
Could someone please give the definition of "assimilate?"
Two definitions.
1. To completely eradicated identities and culture and blend seamlessly into American culture. Big draw back with this is that we cannot agree as to what American culture is, given that this is a multi cultural nation, because of its ethnic diversity, and also because of its regional divergences in values.
2. The second is for the immigrant to become fluent speaking, reading, writing, and comprehending English. Acquiring the hard and soft skills which they will need to succeed in the labor markers in the USA, and to begin to understand and to participate in US civic society. And to be able to engage groups outside of their culture. By this measure immigrants who arrive with high levels of education are more likely to assimilate than those who don't.
In fact I prefer the second definition of assimilation, and it is more appropriate in a country which boasts of its diversity, and of its ability to absorb immigrants without forcing them to completely eradicate their culture and identity. Even though the foundation of the USA is the culture of the British Isles, American culture(s) incorporate way more than this.
OK so we established that the immigrants Africa sends to the USA are the most representative of their educational elites, than is true for other immigrant sending nations. So explain this to me.
If the immigrants from Africa are MORE confined to its educational elites than is immigration from other sources, wouldn't Africans not be the most educated immigrant group? So why is the fact that they are the most educated immigrant group, and in fact considerably more educated than WHITE Americans, some indicator of their success?
It is an indicator of who is ABLE to MIGRATE to the USA. NOTHING MORE!
But your first link seriously undermines your argument of success, and in fact corresponds to my experience with Africans. I have used taxis driven by Africans. In almost no instance was the driver uneducated. In fact some were even ENGINEERS, so weren't intellectual slouches. Yet they were driving taxis.
This is in fact reflected in your link which indicates that Africans face a number of obstacles, INCLUDING RACISM, in translating their high levels of education into high household median earnings.
Your point in fact suggests that African immigrants are NOT successful, as they have been LESS able to translate their higher levels of education into forms of employment which utilizes this.
In fact a comparison of African immigrants with the considerably LESS educated black immigrants from the Caribbean, indicates that they aren't doing better, and in fact in certain measures, they do WORSE. Note that the Caribbean data includes immigrants from Haiti, the DR, and Cuba, where educational levels achieved trail that of migrants from the English speaking Caribbean.
In fact Nigerians, the MOST educated African group, have household median incomes only slightly higher than Jamaicans, despite having double the % of college graduates!
[b][color=red]The FACT is that Africans gain NO ADVANTAGE, when compared to others, of being more likely to arrive as college graduates, or arrive in the USA to attend college. It is therefore immaterial as to what their opinion of black Americans might be.
My first link does NOT undermine my argument that African immigrants are highly achieved academically, both in their home countries and in the US. I wasn't talking about their ability to find well-paying professional-level employment in the US.
However, I will speak to that. Yes, racism probably plays a role in African immigrants' unfortunately common predicament of being unable to secure decently-paying employment in their fields. But other factors can be at work as well. It may he difficult for you to believe, but there are plenty of highly-educated, accomplished "whites" who have endured long-term unemployment or underemployment.
Sometimes, it's due to plain, old-fashioned economics. Sometimes the arbitrary, idiosyncratic, highly impersonal reality of modern (online) job-hunting is to blame. It's just the nature of the beast, and many of us have been firmly gripped in its teeth. Local, cultural, or regional favoritism can be the culprit. And, yes, other forms of discrimination -- that have nothing to do with race -- is also what can hold people back. Whatever the reason (s ), maybe we, too, could consider ourselves victims and be determined to be angry at the world. But, that's a waste of energy and counter-productive, if you ask me.
You seem intent on looking for an argument, though I'm not sure why. Blacks have suffered, and often continue to suffer, from racism? No one with any sense would deny that. But, you know, it's not all sunshine and roses for other immigrants or American-born job-hunters of any other race, either. Welcome to the 21st century.
Let's start the story at this moment. Anglo upper class " white men " started this nation. At the moment this photo was painted or whatever .. each and every one of these men had the same thought.. this country is for us and our children only. That's it. We have been through enough **** in Europe , we had to eliminate those pesky Natives, fight a war of independence and now we have a relatively sweet thing going on .. we are going to import slaves from Europe and Africa, sit back , count our money , live a life of leisure. This is our country now. Amen. And BTW , " all men are created equal " ... .
And this went on for years until ..there had to be a clear separation between the " whites " and the " blacks ". You see , the lower class indentured servants from both Europe and Africa were just too many , they could have overthrown their upper class masters ( who were still all Anglo upper class white men ) and taken their fair share. But , these masters were smart people.
By throwing those poor European indentured servants a bone , by telling them , hey buddy , you and us are in the same group .. let's unite against these africans. Let's screw them over. We'll give you some privileges.. based solely on the fact that you.. just like us have ... white skin. You will do the dirty deeds .. slave patrols and what not.
Thus , the very basis of the U.S as a white supremacist social club was established. It continues to this day in a much diluted , much more politically correct way.
An indentured servant and a slave are not the same thing
It's because Europe doesn't assimilate at all, it asks its immigration, maybe rightfully, to fully embrace the language, the history and the values of the country they choose as their residence, should they want to become a citizen. So no melting pot, but a unique framework.
In a way, it's understandable.
However, it's not always working out, e.g. the demonstrations in UK or in France, and surely in some other European countries.
So Europe has an "immigrant problem" as some of the grand kids of immigrants engage in behaviors to destroy it, and most of the remainder fester in complete alienation.
Yet this isn't a problem in the USA. In fact ironically immigrants in the USA ultimately assimilate way more than they do in Europe. They do so at their own pace!
Those in Europe remain locked in banlieus, hating the very fabric of the nations that they were born into!
It may he difficult for you to believe, but there are plenty of highly-educated, accomplished "whites" who have endured long-term unemployment or underemployment.
.
And yet every available statistic will show, that once one adjusts for educational attainment, and other characteristics, whites out earn others.
Now it is true that some whites have experienced downward mobility, especially since the George Bush induced Great Recession of 2007/2008.But that is even MORE true for non whites.
So spare me your wails of white suffering. It remains a fact that, all other things being held equal, being white does give one an advantage in the labor force, ESPECIALLY in times of high unemployment! People more likely hire those who they are socially networked with, and most whites know mainly other whites. And the overwhelming majority of hiring decision are made by whites.
Even when non whites are involved, they do so within a white dominant environment, and so their self preservation suggests that they adhere to the norms of that organization.
The reality is that the argument of African success is based on the fact that Africans who migrate to the USA are the most educated of that continent. This means that African immigrants (and their kids) will have high levels of educational attainment, when compared to others, even whites.
This is a nonsensical argument as it is known that the region of the world with the lowest level of educational attainment is in fact sub Saharan Africa. FEWER than 50% of Nigerian kids BEGIN secondary school. So high levels of educational attainment merely reflect which Africans migrate to the USA.
What CANNOT be denied is that Africans have had a very tough time in translating their high educational attainment into high median house hold earnings.
We can debate why, but until we have the answer, I suggest that people cease to use Africans as a way of denying that rampant institutional racism, against BOTH native blacks, and black immigrants, doesn't act as an additional challenge to attaining economic success.
I do realize, speaking English, can be of help in quickening the assimilation of immigrants, but that's only part of the assimilation process.
I just finished reading La Storia/5 Centuries of the Italian American Experience, and, on average, it took the 3rd generation to become all but assimilated.
When I lived in Minneapolis, they have brought over a number of Somalians, and even today, it doesn't appear that's they've assimilated, or wish to. My brother lived across the street from an apartment building full of these immigrants, and he'd find them throwing garbage bags outside their 3rd floor windows, as late as the early 90's, and still wearing their Burka's.
And how long will it take for the Syrian refugees expected to arrive here?
And is it really necessary for all of them to assimilate? And can we live with that?
If we didn't have so many illegals too, maybe we could live with a few others. A soldier years ago brought back a bride from Korea. Our neighborhood tried very hard to help her adjust but she ended up going back to her country. I would love to know what she told her family about us. The culture was so different. I remember my mother telling about the fact that she would just use the bathroom in the middle of the road. Her mil had a difficult time trying to make sure she did not shame their family. It was sad because the son really loved her.
If we didn't have so many illegals too, maybe we could live with a few others. A soldier years ago brought back a bride from Korea. Our neighborhood tried very hard to help her adjust but she ended up going back to her country. I would love to know what she told her family about us. The culture was so different. I remember my mother telling about the fact that she would just use the bathroom in the middle of the road. Her mil had a difficult time trying to make sure she did not shame their family. It was sad because the son really loved her.
You are comparing a very backward Korea, which was probably devastated due to WWII, followed by the Korean war.
I can assure you that most of today's immigrant women have no desire to go to the toilet in the middle of the street. Even those from little rural villages in Honduras, or Haiti!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
