Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:12 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,797,744 times
Reputation: 1930

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
I thought this issue had already been decided by our Supreme Court.
You mean just like the issue of sodomy was previously decided by our Supreme Court in 1986 before it overturned its own 1986 ruling in 2003?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:18 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,797,744 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Many times there is no warning that a woman will die from childbirth.....things can go very, very wrong with no warning.


No woman should be forced to risk her life against her will.
So, are you against having a draft in all cases, Annie?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:24 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,797,744 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Castration is legal if you want to transition to a female.


Otherwise, asking a doctor to remove your genitals just because you ask would be more akin to a woman asking a doctor to remove her breasts, just because she asks......not gonna happen.


Castration on demand is hardly comparable to abortion, which does not permanently alter a woman's body beyond repair.


Apples/oranges.
I am certainly not the first person who mentioned "back-alley" surgeries here, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:25 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,797,744 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
The last three words of your post are critically important. Inside of her. You cannot legally compel anyone to let others use their body without their consent. It's my uterus. These are my lungs, my blood vessels, my heart, my kidneys, my liver. There is no law, nor any mechanism to create a law, that requires me to allow anyone to use my body. I understand your concern, truly I do, but there's no way around it. Even if you invented an artificial womb so a fetus could be taken out and grown without the mother's body, you could not legally compel her to have involuntary surgery or take medicine against her will. The most practical, realistic means to attain what you want (no abortions) is to advocate for things that help as few unwanted pregnancies occur as possible.
Why exactly should bodily autonomy be a "holy cow," though? After all, I myself am pro-choice and even I certainly don't accept the premise that bodily autonomy should be a "holy cow."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:26 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,797,744 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
not only don't you know the facts about abortion, you need an education on birth control methods. oh so easy for a man to say what young girls should do. an IUD is invasive and lots of women can't use them. how about you men get snipped or quit having sex instead of telling women what they need to do?
Vasectomies can and sometimes do fail, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:29 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,797,744 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollygee View Post
Thank you. This is possibly the best post I have seen on abortion. My Mom, said that is exactly what happened when she was a young woman. Women were dying, from back-alley abortions, with coat hangers. If only some men would take birth control seriously and respect women, some men leave the entire process up to the gals. Keep your pants zipped, buttoned, don't get the gals pregnant and run off and leave her alone and afraid. I am sick of this always thrown out by politicians, mostly male.

Leave our laws alone.

Take more responsibility guys............takes two to tango........
Frankly, you and I are in complete agreement in regards to this. Indeed, (literal) eunuchs are certainly incapable of ever causing an unplanned pregnancy after two successful semen analyses are done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 03:19 AM
 
5,842 posts, read 4,179,337 times
Reputation: 7673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
By that logic, though, why not legalize painless elective infanticide?
Why are you assuming that painless infanticide is wrong?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,110 posts, read 41,284,508 times
Reputation: 45175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Abortion should remain legal and accessible. Too many women died from illegal abortion before Roe v. Wade.

https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3502503.html
Really? That is your main argument in favor of keeping abortion legal?
You chose to quote only part of my post. Here is the whole thing. I see nothing in it to indicate that I said that the part you quoted was the only reason I feel abortion should remain legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Oral contraceptives have indeed been improved since the original Pill came out, with different hormones, lower doses, and different dosing schedules. The risks of the pill are lower than the risk of pregnancy for most women.

Walmart has about nine BCPs available for $9 per 28 day pack.

IUDs are safe, effective, and underutilized. The devices have also been improved over the years. The higher up front cost can be a problem for the uninsured, but the cost amortized over the lifetime of the device is actually low.

Some women who are not covered by insurance or Medicaid may be able to get the Mirena IUD free if they meet income guidelines:

ARCH Patient Assistance Program for Skyla and Mirena (Levonorgestrel-releasing intrauterine system) 13.5 mg and Mirena (Levonorgestrel-releasing intrauterine system) 52 mg

The ParaGard device can be ordered directly by a patient and paid for in one or multiple payments. It is shipped to the person who will do the insertion.

I cannot find any patient assistance information for the hormone implant.

It is not correct to say there have been no improvements in female contraception in the last 50 years.

Abortion should remain legal and accessible. Too many women died from illegal abortion before Roe v. Wade.

https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3502503.html
Abortion should remain legal because the objection to it in the US is religious, and religious beliefs should not be imposed on those who do not share them.

Before you ask, I do not care whether a man wants to have his perfectly healthy balls whacked off. I would consider him to have a mental disorder, though, as would any competent physician, and I do not think a doctor would want to humor such a desire any more than he would amputate someone's legs just because that someone wanted it done.

Also, it is perfectly logical to believe that abortion should be legal but infanticide not be acceptable and that both parents should be financially responsible for children they create and choose to have. What will be done if there is an unplanned pregnancy should be decided before a couple has sex, not afterwards. If one party would opt for abortion and the other would not, there should be no sex. Then you avoid the problem of a woman wanting an abortion her partner objects to or a man having to support a child he does not want.

Yes, the fact that making abortion illegal will not make it go away is a valid reason to keep it legal and safer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 04:07 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,664,027 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Why exactly should bodily autonomy be a "holy cow," though? After all, I myself am pro-choice and even I certainly don't accept the premise that bodily autonomy should be a "holy cow."
People just love to throw the bodily autonomy argument around in discussions of abortion when it really isn't relevant at all. Nearly everyone agrees that people should have some bodily autonomy and rarely anyone believes that people should have complete and unrestricted bodily autonomy. Most people believe (or I hope they believe) that if someone wants to flail their arms around in their own home, away from others, that they should be allowed to, but the moment that someone else enters in their flailing space, that flailing motion can become assault on another morally relevant individual. Ones own right to bodily autonomy ends when it infringes on another individuals rights. So the real question is, are fetuses individuals with rights, which brings us back to the begining of the abortion discussion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 04:15 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,664,027 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Also, it is perfectly logical to believe that abortion should be legal but infanticide not be acceptable and that both parents should be financially responsible for children they create and choose to have. What will be done if there is an unplanned pregnancy should be decided before a couple has sex, not afterwards. If one party would opt for abortion and the other would not, there should be no sex. Then you avoid the problem of a woman wanting an abortion her partner objects to or a man having to support a child he does not want.
Why is it only the woman that gets to opt out of parenthood post sex, but a man cannot? How is that reasonable? What if the woman lies or changes her mind? Should she be forced to have an abortion? In what way is infanticide ethically different from abortion (consider one day before the baby is born to one day after the baby is born)?

Quote:
Yes, the fact that making abortion illegal will not make it go away is a valid reason to keep it legal and safer.
Keeping rape illegal will not make it go away so we should make it legal and safer, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:26 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top