Why are some minorities more successful than others in America? (attorneys, Simpson)

[Tarzanman]

It helps when the country you or your ancestors come from is wealthy (which makes it easier to get a good education).
These factors help avoid the most common pitfalls that can trap a family in a cycle of poverty.

If you track the rise of asian household income (which is higher than that of whites in this country) then you will notice a correlation with the economies of the countries those groups come from (India, China, Vietnam, etc) even though in terms of numbers there are less asians in this country than blacks or hispanics (and they have been here for less time).

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by Robert137

I have to take issue with this somewhat loaded question. True in centuries past there was hostility to minorities and immigrants, but since the 1965 immigration law that opened the floodgates, I believe most Americans have behaved very well to newcomers, welcomed them and applauded the great success that many have had.

I'd point out that the 1965 immigration law coincided with the 1964 Civil Rights act...a few years earlier and you would not have found "most Americans have behaved very well to newcomers, welcomed them and applauded the great success that many have had."


Immigration is in itself a social filter. In all the waves of pioneering an immigration, I would assert that those who did so represented groups with characteristics to succeed. In my own case, it was a family that went to extraordinary measures to break the sharecropper debt-cycle in Mississippi and participate in the 1898 Oklahoma land rush, where my great-great-grandfather staked out land and built the only sawmill in the county. I don't discount for a moment their actions continue to reverberate through my generation.

[WildColonialGirl]

Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer

I think that intelligence and hard work are really all that is required for economic success. There is a strong correlation between educational attainment level and lifetime earnings in America.

The other factors you mentioned are helpful, but they're just icing on the cake. Not the elephant in the room.

You're a middle class white person, aren't you? Me too, but I shut my mouth and opened my ears.

[ukrkoz]

Read post #1 here. Exactly to my point

http://www.city-data.com/forum/great...erational.html

[AnywhereElse]

Originally Posted by DownHillAmerica

Because races differ biologically, and thereby some are better able to do some things than other races collectively.

Seriously? I don't why people still believe stuff like that ^^^. One race, the human race: https://partners.nytimes.com/library...tics-race.html

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

East Asians - Tight Families Demand Certain Behaviour - High Rate of Success

American Blacks - Destroyed Families Demand Little - Low Rate of Success

So you are saying that all East Asians and all American Blacks are like that? How do you suppose the families were destroyed? Could it be because they were kept like kidnapped from their countries, kept like animals........ and now, are losing jobs to illegal aliens. And, if everyone is so great in east Asia, well, I haven't seen that as most of those countries actually don't do that well. Success of east Asia has been dependent on our country shipping jobs to them, our jobs. Unemployment among young black males has skyrocketed and have you ever tried to keep a family together without enough money to survive on. The welfare system offers women with children and no husband a better life than working minimum wage. Do the math.

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

I was thinking about this since yesterday, when I saw your post.
I'd probably narrow it down to this:
- we come without sense of entitlement
- we are not programmed (I'd stay from using the more appropriate word) like Americans
- we are hungry for good life and not afraid to work towards it
- in many cases, we come already well trained and educated, so it's easy to obtain good jobs.

That said, our children already show signs of being not like us. I see this in my sons and in community.

Maybe you in particular but many immigrants to the US are using public assistance benefits: Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households | Center for Immigration Studies So, not all are getting jobs. I do not believe that anyone should be immigrating to the US without a job already in place. I am tired of carrying our own citizens and even more fed up with carrying refugees, illegal and legal immigrants!

Originally Posted by Dopo

Immigrants from Nigeria, India, Venezuela, etc. are usually the highly educated class that decided to leave the country and has the means to buy a plane ticket to move to the US.

Immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras.... are usually the lower class, that decide to jump on a train up to the US-Mexico border and then pay a coyote to get them across the border

This is actually sad for their countries when they lose their educated to another country.

You'll see from this article that we allow an equal amount to come in from countries south of the border: Why Don and this shows where the illegals come in from: Demographics of Immigrants in the United States Illegally - Illegal Immigration Solutions - ProCon.org

Flying the flag of the country you have left, refusing to learn the language, demanding benefits meant only for legal residents/citizens while having entered the country without authorization, these people are trying to colonize our country.

It isn't about maintaining one's culture, but imposing it on others, like with sharia law and the movement by Muslims to institute that in some cities.

We are losing who we are.

[Salmonburgher]

East Asians - Tight Families Demand Certain Behaviour - High Rate of Success

American Blacks - Destroyed Families Demand Little - Low Rate of Success

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

So you are saying that all East Asians and all American Blacks are like that?

How can you have a discussion with anyone when you apparently are unable to understand an obvious generalisation? Moreover, the OP question is asking about relative differences in various minority groups, in which case, we need to look at the various groups as wholes... i.e., we need to generalise.

Do you really believe that I am unaware that some blacks are successful and some East Asians are not?

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

How do you suppose the families were destroyed? Could it be because they were kept like kidnapped from their countries, kept like animals...

No. That was not the reason. From slavery through Jim Crow, the black family in the US remained quite intact up until the start of LBJ's Great Society.

Prior to the start of Liberal do-gooders' attempts to help blacks, black women were more likely than white women to be married and living in intact families in the US. Let me repeat that so that the fact can sink in:

Prior to the start of Liberal do-gooders' attempts to help blacks, black women were more likely than white women to be married and living in intact families in the US.

Even while the nation was shamefully segregated, the black communities had black shopkeepers, doctors, attorneys, accountants, etc...

Now, you tell me what you think destroyed the black family.

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

And, if everyone is so great in east Asia, well, I haven't seen that as most of those countries actually don't do that well. Success of east Asia has been dependent on our country shipping jobs to them, our jobs. Unemployment among young black males has skyrocketed and have you ever tried to keep a family together without enough money to survive on. The welfare system offers women with children and no husband a better life than working minimum wage. Do the math.

I've done the maths.

I've also lived in East Asia for the past 32 years, and I speak the language where I live.

And again, getting back to the OP, the question is why do some minorities do well in the USA and some do not?

How East Asians fare in East Asia is irrelevant to this question.

There. I've done the maths.

Now, why don't you go back and read the question... and maybe look at a book and learn some history?

[Ummagumma]

It's very simple, actually.

It's all in mentality.

The groups that valued education, hard work, and close family ties achieved the most despite starting from humble and often dire beginnings.

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by Tarzanman

It helps when the country you or your ancestors come from is wealthy (which makes it easier to get a good education).

Certainly.

But, what of East Asian immigrants (who then formed part of the East Asian minority community in the USA) who arrived with little in the way of possessions and or assets? I'm thinking of many of the Vietnamese refugees who arrived in the late 1970s. Many of their children did not speak English and yet ended up doing well in American schools, often becoming valedictorians.

The East Asian minority community has often be described as the "model minority" in the US. Many of the members of that minority hate that term. But, so far, it has been an appropriate description, in overall relative terms.

What is being seen, to an extent, is that as generations of East Asians stay in the US, the later generations assimilate into US culture and by the third generation, East Asian kids are doing about as well as whites (i.e., a bit of a decline), again, overall.

What happened? Easy. Later generations, when assimilating not US culture, lose a bit of their original Confucian ethics, which stresses family cohesion and hierarchy, and it is, IMO, that ethic that keeps their families together and their families are what encourage (demand) effort and excellence in school.

Contrast that with the current state of the black American family.

Which kid do you think has a better chance at succeeding: The East Asian kid or the black kid?

[Port Pitt Ash]

So we're calling media bias here and others are believing it?

As far as the self policing goes back in the 80's when crack was ravaging communities you still saw pastors and community mother types trying to hold things together, but today not so much (or at least it doesn't make the paper/news).

And as far as media bias goes why do they report the negative things about one group more than another?

Anyone living in an area with Hmong gangs knows that things are just as bad, but I'd imagine most Americans would say what's a Hmong? Somalis along with the Hmong are sort of the same sort of thing in that they were neither from the lower or higher class, but mixed. Same could be said for the Cubans, yet Dominicans (both poor and well to do) seemed to have taken to America more so and found success. Puerto Ricans seemed to have had mixed success, but you still see a lot of the bad attitude thing you're talking about there in America.

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

Flying the flag of the country you have left, refusing to learn the language, demanding benefits meant only for legal residents/citizens while having entered the country without authorization, these people are trying to colonize our country.

I guess what I don't understand is if you're one of these people why would you go someplace for the opportunities of that place and then change it back to what you were trying to get away from in the first place.

Originally Posted by Ummagumma

The groups that valued education, hard work, and close family ties achieved the most despite starting from humble and often dire beginnings.

Except you're not really seeing that yet in the Mexican communities despite their value of education, hard work, and close family ties.

[dunno what to put here]

Well, in the UK poor white children do worse in education so maybe the question here should be - why are poor white children so bad in school, even compared to poor black children, and will that success in school translate into success in the workforce.