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. When the media (and most of the majority) think of "black community" they never think about the middle-class blacks where they work or who they see on their commutes or who live on the same block...they think only of the "hood" blacks because that's all represented by the media.
When I think of the "black community" I don't think of all the people with African blood, I think of neighborhoods in my city that are mostly black.
You are correct to point out that many, if not most, black people don't live in those inner city neighborhoods, but that is, as you point out, what most people think about when they think of bo the "black community".
I very seldom see black people in the environmental groups, or the techie groups, or the civic affairs groups I belong to. That's probably another reason people tend to overlook the middle-class blacks who don't live the mostly-black neighborhoods.
Maybe we need another word to describe the population of African-Americans, rather than just the people who live in a specific neighborhood.
I'm afraid I do, and they will do about the same things managing feminine hygiene product lines tomorrow. Don't you think that your attempt at meritocratic rationalization getting ridiculous? Low level managers earn more than one of a kind high level grunts therefore they must be skilled etc. beyond grunt' imagination. Really? Do you have something other than circular logic to back that up?
It is pretty darn obvious that one' place in hierarchy defines one' compensation, all the skills, hard work and supplies and demands be damned. Interpreting that fact in terms of meritocratic paradigm leads to some mighty unbelievable if not oxymoronic conclusions.
This is as false as stating the world is flat. And reeks of my 7 year old screaming "it's not fair!!!!" when I don't just hand her whatever she wants. Goodness, I hope you're not an adult with an attitude like that, lol.
People in this country don't get paid according to subjective "merit". People in this country don't get paid according to what you feel is a "skill". People in this country don't get paid according to some made up sour grapes "pecking order" either.
People in this country get paid according to whether or not they can do something that someone else is willing to pay for, and how many other people are able to do that same thing. Period.
If someone can do something I'm willing to pay for, then that person will be paid. However, if tons and tons and tons of people can do that same thing, then only the one willing to take the least amount of money for it will get paid. See teachers, daycare workers, construction workers, etc.
If someone can do something I'm willing to pay for, but they are one of the only ones who can do it, they can make a lot of money. Especially if it is something I just HAVE to have. Because they can charge more because I have to have it, and there is no one else I can get it from, and so I will shell out the money regardless. See brain surgeons, investment bankers, Apple iPhone engineers.
If middle managers get paid more, it's because the people with money are willing to pay middle managers big bucks, because they NEED middle management and there's not a whole lot of folks around who can successfully manage people. That's all it is.
If a low level manager is being paid more than a one of a kind highly skilled grunt, then that means that a good grunt manager is harder to find and retain than a good grunt. Simple as that.
The key to being successful in America is to get really good at something that a lot of people NEED but not a lot of people can DO. If you do that, then you make money. Period. If you don't do that, then you don't make a lot of money. Period. And if you are one of the ones that didn't make a lot of money, that's no one's fault but your own, because you didn't do those things. If you want to make more money, then go learn how to do those things and quit your whining. The world is NOT out to get you. The world just isn't willing to give you any money for whatever crap you can do because they can probably do it too.
When I think of the "black community" I don't think of all the people with African blood, I think of neighborhoods in my city that are mostly black.
You are correct to point out that many, if not most, black people don't live in those inner city neighborhoods, but that is, as you point out, what most people think about when they think of bo the "black community".
I very seldom see black people in the environmental groups, or the techie groups, or the civic affairs groups I belong to. That's probably another reason people tend to overlook the middle-class blacks who don't live the mostly-black neighborhoods.
Maybe we need another word to describe the population of African-Americans, rather than just the people who live in a specific neighborhood.
You mean the black people who are educated and go to work and go home and raise their families and don't live in the hood? Those folks live next door to me.
This is as false as stating the world is flat. And reeks of my 7 year old screaming "it's not fair!!!!" when I don't just hand her whatever she wants. Goodness, I hope you're not an adult with an attitude like that, lol.
People in this country don't get paid according to subjective "merit". People in this country don't get paid according to what you feel is a "skill". People in this country don't get paid according to some made up sour grapes "pecking order" either.
People in this country get paid according to whether or not they can do something that someone else is willing to pay for, and how many other people are able to do that same thing. Period. I will leave putting lipstick on a pig for the folks like yourself.
If someone can do something I'm willing to pay for, then that person will be paid. However, if tons and tons and tons of people can do that same thing, then only the one willing to take the least amount of money for it will get paid. See teachers, daycare workers, construction workers, etc.
If someone can do something I'm willing to pay for, but they are one of the only ones who can do it, they can make a lot of money. Especially if it is something I just HAVE to have. Because they can charge more because I have to have it, and there is no one else I can get it from, and so I will shell out the money regardless. See brain surgeons, investment bankers, Apple iPhone engineers.
If middle managers get paid more, it's because the people with money are willing to pay middle managers big bucks, because they NEED middle management and there's not a whole lot of folks around who can successfully manage people. That's all it is.
The key to being successful in America is to get really good at something that a lot of people NEED but not a lot of people can DO. If you do that, then you make money. Period. If you don't do that, then you don't make a lot of money. Period. And if you are one of the ones that didn't make a lot of money, that's no one's fault but your own, because you didn't do those things. If you want to make more money, then go learn how to do those things and quit your whining. The world is NOT out to get you. The world just isn't willing to give you any money for whatever crap you can do because they can probably do it too.
That is some mighty twisted circular BS, my friend. Management will always get paid more, regardless of the very long line of the qualified candidates willing to manage for much less, regardless of running companies into the ground, regardless of all the virtues and shortages under the Sun because the laws of human hierarchy demand top monkey to get more bamboo sprouts than the grunt monkeys they manage, all shortages and skills be damned. Please, don't try that slave conditionining on me. I have no inferiority complexes for you to play on. It is definitely not my fault I am born into this master-slave reality, and it is not my fault I take it for what it is, I definitely will not find existential solace in me joining the fleecing class, and I will not blame myself or envy those remarkable folks circular logicians like yourself admire . Honestly, I don't believe human kind is capable of anything better than one master-slave parasitic scheme or another, so relax.
Btw, your circular reasoning can be applied to rationalize just about any socio economic hierarchy in the past and the future. Circular reasoning is the most cost effective social control tool ever, it just never gets old.
Btw#2, Economics 101 you recite is insufficient for understanding this reality precisely because it intentionally ignores coercive, hierarchical nature of societies. Your recitations dont really resemble reality because of that inborn defect.
Last edited by RememberMee; 07-20-2016 at 11:17 AM..
That is some mighty twisted circular BS, my friend. Management will always get paid more...[rest of rant snipped]
You have a very limited and skewed view of reality, and I'm pretty sure you don't know what constitutes "circular reasoning". I was recently "promoted" to the management path in my company. I'm the lowest level manager, but this title can be responsible for as many as a dozen employees (I currently have one). I can personally verify that at least two levels of high-level technical path positions make more money than I do. One title makes considerably more money. Even my single employee makes more in salary than I do. Nothing circular about it.
I get a slightly higher yearly bonus, but that doesn't make up for the year worth of higher salary.
Anyway, what does this have to do with the success of minorities/immigrants?
Oh, my employee is a minority/immigrant! As is my boss, who makes considerably more money than I do but who does far less work. Go figure.
You have a very limited and skewed view of reality, and I'm pretty sure you don't know what constitutes "circular reasoning". I was recently "promoted" to the management path in my company. I'm the lowest level manager, but this title can be responsible for as many as a dozen employees (I currently have one). I can personally verify that at least two levels of high-level technical path positions make more money than I do. One title makes considerably more money. Even my single employee makes more in salary than I do. Nothing circular about it.
I get a slightly higher yearly bonus, but that doesn't make up for the year worth of higher salary.
Anyway, what does this have to do with the success of minorities/immigrants?
Oh, my employee is a minority/immigrant! As is my boss, who makes considerably more money than I do but who does far less work. Go figure.
With all those remarkable achievements under your belt you seem not to understand what "circular reasoning" is and how it relates to the post I replied to, it has nothing to do with you earning less than some of your techicians. Besides in my first posts i clearly mentioned "Middle and some low level". I cannot comment on your organization, written and actual pecking order may differ somewhat especially when companies/labs circulate a small army of eager disposable aspirants through those positions, but if it's a solid position people expected to last, it's highly unusual because it creates conflicts. Sooner or later grudges on your part will combine with smug insubordinate attitudes of your underlings into a toxic brew, but as long as you are a "kid" in training or short term usage it is OK. I worked in an environment like that, turn over was unbelievable. Also, some jobs just suck arse so bad, so low end managers are just happy to make a little extra for as long as they are not the suckers doing that job. But nevertherless it is an "extra" if they are expected to last.
I credit my success as an immigrant with being white, good looking, somewhat motivated, military and lucky. Most important was learning to speak English without a hint of a foreign accent, this took many years and practice. Job offers followed quickly as did promotions and salary. I never had to look for employment even the military wanted me.
I am going to say look all around the world. There's are Blacks, Asians, Whites and natives thru out the world. They all are traditionally in the same social scale. Asians are usually fine threw out the world, whites are usually find but there is an okay amount that are lower, blacks are usually always lower as with native Americans in the Americas. I think this is true because of IQ.
Linda Gottfredson is a great woman who has studied this for decades.
Also look at the countries East Asians and whites have been able to make great countries, and contribute greatly to the world.Some people in Africa are still living in hunts, and while most of the world had metal and many other inventions the native Americans weren't very advanced at all.
Look at what you see in your life. I see many blacks that do tribalistic/clannish things. They listen to rap with the stereotypical cars and they keep their tribalistic identity. Whites are all over the spectrum from what I see in my life. Whites are all over the political spectrum, they don't just become rapers or sport players, they can be emo, preppy, etc. whites don't have the clannish/ tribalistic ness I see in blacks. They also always mention their race, in the ocasinonal books they make it has to do about their race! In their movies it's about slavery or their race! All the ones I know brought race up a lot too!
So my conclusion is these races are usually in the same GENERAL spots in economic and social class threw out the world, whites and East Asians have been able to develope their countries into great things, and use your expirences and what you see. I see blacks as being very tribalistic/clannish GENERALLY. My psychology teacher told me that is a sign of not being intelligent... Different breed of dogs are smarter so why would different breeds of humans not be? Don't forget we are animals.
My oppinions seem to follow a common concensus. Blacks average IQ is average 85 for American black and would have a good amount of people below and above that percentile. African black from Africa is 70. There is a higher IQ in American blacks due to them having lots of white ancestry from slave owners and bi racial dating. Their average IQ is also the cutoff for the military. White people have an average IQ of 100. The whites are like the blacks being that there are 50/50 of people on either side of the 100 IQ. Asians are where it gets weird. Asians have an average IQ of 105 but it is really rare they will be anything different than that IQ. So whites have more geniuses.... And stupid people... While Asians are all close to the 105 IQ. Ashkenazi Jews although white have an average IQ of 110.
They have done studies with twins of same race, then separated them to different families in different social economic statuses and they usually have the same IQ only 3ish point difference. Blacks even in wealthy families are more likely to go to jail then their white and Asian counterparts. Race and IQ is a real thing along with other genetic differences. We are not all the same, races are real, and sadly we are not all smart. I think this should really be addressed more how can we have a society where we aren't all equal?
BTW I'm not racist cause I have facts. And I still enjoy all people!
Btw the woman above named Linda use to work for the government and now she works for the university of Delaware. Here's a great interview with her. I believe her because of what I see and because I refuse to believe the government or what the liberals with the agenda say. Btw I have no idea if she is liberal or not but I think she is... Expect for on race and IQ...
You probably need to get out in the real world more often because none of your observations ring true. Once you get to know people as individuals, you'll find that they can be all over the spectrum , as you put it and not confined to your stereotypical notions of who they are based on race. Some people in Europe still live in huts while most Africans live in houses. Most of the opinions you posted here are not facts and yes you do come off sounding racist. Get out and actually meet people.
For some reason your question OP made me think to back in the day when the Irish were immigrating in droves to escape the famine and other things. They were really looked down apon by many people due to their rough house ways and propensity to drink. Being Catholic also didn't help matters .
Due to the majorities concern and worries about problems the Irish were lumped with another minority group and excluded from business and jobs with signs that read "No Blacks and No Irish". Talk about discrimination.
Fast forward to today and the Irish still have the rough and ready to drink stigma but they are also sought after around the world as hard working, skilled and honest people.
When it comes down to success in America is it due to the people themselves fitting in to society or acceptance by society as a whole. The Irish have gotten past their stigmas but it seems that black folk are still trying to break that stereotypical mold and the BLM crowd is not helping.
Positive actions, acceptance and time equals success.
That is just a result of the symptoms/socio historical realities, which can be misconstrued, if others aren't aware of that history.
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