Should It Be Shameful To Say You're Not Patriotic? (interview, wages, Brown)
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In the simplest of terms, patriotism is what so many scoundrels aspire to, and, the thing most misunderstood by good people. It has been associated with the military for obvious reasons, the word freedom is usually associated with killing others or getting killed, and the misguided patriot is supposed to get behind that. But, the real patriot is he who can criticize his government and know that this act separates the government of a nation from it's social fabric. Most of us love America, it is our home, but we can't always act in the best interests of those in power, especially when that power opposes us on so many fronts.
There is an, "America," the government, the military, and political power, all rolled into what we have been told is worth killing and dying for--And then, there is america, no cap, little a. That america is the one made up of our family and friends, the one that is sometimes in opposition to the "big A" America, patriots are usually for the little a. They aren't running around the globe on orders to kill everyone their masters point to. We have a long way to go with respect to taking back our language, "patriot" should be better defined, too many are throwing their lives away and using patriotism as a reason to do so. One would have to live outside the US in order to see our government's policies through the eye of those most affected by it..
Interesting example you gave. It's not a parallel analogy, unless you meant to imply that those sports figures who don't stand for the national anthem aren't American....? You're not Canadian, so of course it would be rude to not stand. But Canadians could mount a protest at the playing of their own anthem, if they felt the need. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that African American athletes aren't American.
There is an, "America," the government, the military, and political power, all rolled into what we have been told is worth killing and dying for--And then, there is america, no cap, little a. That america is the one made up of our family and friends, the one that is sometimes in opposition to the "big A" America, patriots are usually for the little a. ..
I posit that the real Patriots are most often those who would never call themselves such - nor call someone else heroes or patriots (unless they REALLY know the score).
It's that old saying which seems to anticipate this “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
I'm over 60 now but I lost my "standard issue patriotism" when I was 16 and watched cops get up on the stand and lie - one after another - about busting up a friend of mine and sending him to the hospital. I probably had lost some of it 2 years before that when I went to Military School and discovered what power and rank (fake or real) does to people - watching High School Seniors beat freshman to a pulp because they had a higher rank will make an impression on a kid.
Then we had Vietnam, etc.
We thought maybe the country had finally learned - but it's clear this (endless war) is not something the average joe or jane can stop. IKE was right about the Military Industrial Complex....now added to by the Medical and Wall Street and Fossil Fuel complexes.
So I don't believe in the straight and narrow definition of Patriotism - that is, the ideal that we are always the good guys (no matter what) and that we strive for the best for our people or even others.
Yet - at the same time- America offers some unique advantages that I cannot ignore.
I guess I could put it this way. I feel that I am more Patriotic than most because I work hard, take care of my family (and others), volunteer - and don't cheat on my taxes.
That last point is especially valid. I'd "betcha" that a lot of loud Patriots avoid paying their fair share or try to take advantage of others and/or the government in certain ways.
In the end that is really a lot of the story. Are we willing to pay our way? Or, do we use the freedom (honor tax system) and chaos to get away with things?
Yes but there is a big difference between fighting for your life and fighting to make some oligarcy rich which is what pretty much every war after WW2 has been about. WW2 was the last real nationalism and/or lagit patriotism.
Even WWII is suspect.....for various reasons.
First, Great Britain was - as you know - the furthest thing from a Democracy. They were still holding a lot of their Colonial properties and their society was mostly for benefit of the 1% and above.
We didn't like Japan having designs on OUR conquered territories or that of the other European countries. It's not like we've treated the Philippines so finely since the Spanish American War!
Both Germany and Japan had somewhat similar designs to the USA- that is, we took over Texas and California and Alaska and Hawaii and other places for a reason (usually resources or location).
The problem for Germany, Japan and the rest of the world is that we did it better first (had access to more people, land and resources), so we could stand on the pedestal and tell them "you can't do this too".
This is not to say that the Axis was not evil....but, heck, the Ruskies (Stalin!) were our allies and Bosom Buddies and they are the ones, along with us, that largely won the war.
Anyway, that's another Great Debate.
WWII did bring out the Patriotism in America mostly due to "common cause" - which was not beating Hitler as much as that most EVERYONE took part in either military life or in supporting it. This created a true "community" with a similar goal "get this thing over with".
As they say, the Victors tend to write the history. Someday China will probably do it in Mandarin and it will be the world standard for truth.
I was excited when POTUS Carter called the Energy Crisis "the moral equiv. of war" - because it was an idea that could have brought Americans together in a Common Cause. But, alas, the fossil fuel powers and basic selfishness was more powerful and here we are 35 years later barely getting started.
My feelings to this are if you aren't patriotic for this country then move to the country of your choice. I have a son who said he sees no reason to like America. Now granted he is 14 and still very young but I told him to pack his bags and feel free to move away when he is old enough. I honestly feel that way for anyone who isn't for our country.
My feelings to this are if you aren't patriotic for this country then move to the country of your choice. I have a son who said he sees no reason to like America. Now granted he is 14 and still very young but I told him to pack his bags and feel free to move away when he is old enough. I honestly feel that way for anyone who isn't for our country.
As long as you don't mix up the country and the people who run it...
My feelings to this are if you aren't patriotic for this country then move to the country of your choice. I have a son who said he sees no reason to like America. Now granted he is 14 and still very young but I told him to pack his bags and feel free to move away when he is old enough. I honestly feel that way for anyone who isn't for our country.
I sorta feel bad for your son.
I came of age during Vietnam and at first my parents towed the company line (like you). But then, as educated people do, they studied the situation and listened carefully to the arguments. They - or at least my dad - concluded that the war was a bad decision by our leaders and, if they could help it, their sons were not gonna go. I picked a high lottery number. Many of my friends didn't. A good percentage of them killed themselves in the decades after or succumbed to Agent Orange.
I'd say your son should further his education and make his own decisions. In fact, you might learn something by looking at the country and world in a way that is "beginner's mind" (as if you were not already firmly set in your opinions).
I am a history nut and, for example, have recently read 10's of thousands of pages on the African-American experience. Book on Civil Rights, Jim Crow, Lynching, etc.
If your son is, for example, looking at the history of racism in this country...can't you understand his lack of approval?
*Disclaimer - you probably shouldn't involve yourself in these great debates unless you are open to possibly looking at things in a different way. I'm sure, for example, the black dude chained to a pickup truck and dragged down the road in Texas a few years back didn't die thinking "what a great country".
Why not challenge your son to read some history books and discuss them with you? I'll be glad to provide some suggestions. We can even include bios of Hamilton and books on American innovation.
My feelings to this are if you aren't patriotic for this country then move to the country of your choice. I have a son who said he sees no reason to like America. Now granted he is 14 and still very young but I told him to pack his bags and feel free to move away when he is old enough. I honestly feel that way for anyone who isn't for our country.
So, how do you view patriotism? Something to be proud of or ashamed of?
The U.S. is one of the countries where many people are openly and proudly patriotic, almost jingoistic. We have been for at least one and one quarter centuries the country of choice for people wanting to work hard to which to emigrate. Need I say more?
The U.S. is one of the countries where many people are openly and proudly patriotic, almost jingoistic. We have been for at least one and one quarter centuries the country of choice for people wanting to work hard to which to emigrate. Need I say more?
And what do you say of the Immigrant "patriots" who moved to this country to make all the money they could, and return to their native countries to retire? I work with a slew of Filipino's in a healthcare facility, 50% are Filipino, and most of them save enough money to have a retirement home in the Philippines. And? Adios, USA! And where do they spend all their hard-earned money for vacations?
My Mexican roommate has been in this country for almost 40 years, and he'll be headed for his retirement home in Guadalajara!
And what do you say about the Caucasian retiree's who sped off to foreign countries to retire? Traitors?
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