Is Flag Burning a Good Method of Expression of Political Views? (free speech, military)

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner

Conversely....... don't try to force your ideals on me. If you want to protest a certain policy the government is doing.........burn a copy of that policy..........

Wait, because now you're trying to force yours on me.
What if I went to protest the whole government? Then is it ok or shall I burn the Constitution instead? Or a copy of the Bill of Rights?

Originally Posted by shanv3

1) If you are pissed off at something at home or school , do you spit on your Father's or Principal's picture?? Its after all a representation, not themselves right??

People actually do these things. There are many things children do that would back up this statement.

[longneckone]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I understand that you believe it's wrong.

You need to understand that others of us -- as is obvious by this thread -- believe it is not wrong.

Both sides have their beliefs, and your side is not "the decider". So no -- you can't just say "it's still wrong - period". On both sides it's an opinion.

You are right. The problem is each side KNOWS it is right and will not even listen to reasoning from the other side. This applies to U.S. politics in general not just the flag issue.

[Pub-911]

Originally Posted by zugor

On my way into town today I saw a flag flying and found myself wondering how much longer before we start to see it flown upside down "as a signal of dire distress in extreme instances of danger to life and property".

While I did not proceed along or across every available byway, from what I did observe, every flag being flown in my neighborhood on this past Inauguration Day was being flown upside-down.

[Otherwise, the posts of the Deplorables were so obnoxious as to keep me from reading through or past Page-4. Great Debates is in danger of slipping down the same rabbit hole of disgrace as Current Events and P&OC.]

[kayanne]

Originally Posted by Redraven

When all else fails, one could just sit down and read the law.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/chapter-1

How can the Supreme Court say it is legal to burn the flag in light of what this law says? Is this an old outdated link? Or was the law in this link officially overturned by the Supreme Court? Or is this code merely suggestions, rather than law? I bolded relevant portions:

U.S. Code › Title 4 › Chapter 1 › § 8
4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag
US Code
Notes
prev | next
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
(Added Pub. L. 105–225, § 2(a), Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1497.)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Razza94

No, it is deliberately provocative and highly likely to generate emotionally-charged reactions.

So it moves you out of your "Comfort Zone" which is what it's supposed to do.

Originally Posted by longneckone

I think burning the flag shows extreme disrespect for those who have died for it.

You wrongfully assume those who died for it think like you do.

Originally Posted by jbgusa

I think most supporters of flag burning are more nihilist or anarchist than liberal.

I'm a conservative. The flag is a crowd symbol and nothing more.

[Italian (x)lurker]

Never liked it, it's vulgar and violent
and it's wrong in lumping everything together

[Cape Cod Todd]

I think it is stupid to burn the very flag that represents the country and people who have died that have given you the right to burn the flag.

What is even more stupid is that many who do so have no idea why they are doing it.
I think they do it just for the shock value because they know that most people still respect old glory.

I can see why they burn it in Iran but here at home? They are ignorant and misguided.

[kokonutty]

Originally Posted by kayanne

How can the Supreme Court say it is legal to burn the flag in light of what this law says? Is this an old outdated link? Or was the law in this link officially overturned by the Supreme Court? Or is this code merely suggestions, rather than law? I bolded relevant portions:

U.S. Code › Title 4 › Chapter 1 › § 8
4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag
US Code
Notes
prev | next
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
(Added Pub. L. 105–225, § 2(a), Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1497.)

Those are simply guidelines, not a penal code. Note the use of "should" rather than "shall." Also note that there are no penalties attached to actions contrary to this code.

And be sure that many generally accepted uses violate terms of this code, specifically (c) when a huge flag is carried onto the field at a stadium - some of those flags have even been cut into the shape of the US map.

Look at (I) and see how often that is violated by nearly every business on three or four holidays a year. Section (j) used to be much shorter until somebody decided it was a good idea to include it on all kinds of uniforms and politicians decided they needed to prove something with lapel pins.

[kayanne]

Originally Posted by kokonutty

Those are simply guidelines, not a penal code. Note the use of "should" rather than "shall." Also note that there are no penalties attached to actions contrary to this code.

And be sure that many generally accepted uses violate terms of this code, specifically (c) when a huge flag is carried onto the field at a stadium - some of those flags have even been cut into the shape of the US map.

Look at (I) and see how often that is violated by nearly every business on three or four holidays a year. Section (j) used to be much shorter until somebody decided it was a good idea to include it on all kinds of uniforms and politicians decided they needed to prove something with lapel pins.

Yeah, I was thinking of many of those examples you mentioned but I didn't want to veer too off topic.

[animalcrazy]

I personally believe that burning an American flag is a form of disrespect, especially for the people who gave their lives to protect our freedoms. That freedom also includes the right to burn the flag. Do it if you must, but I will pass.