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And that's where a lot of people disagree with you. They don't fully agree with the axiomatic idea of "theft is wrong". Similar to the idea that "murder is wrong", because a lot of people will kill a very bad person, and consider it an ethical action. Basically like Robin Hood.
It's also foolish to think that people who make the most money provide the most good for society, and should be awarded accordingly. We don't live in that imaginary libertarian meritocracy system, and never have. But it sure sounds nice.
Here's a hard question. If you were made economically obsolete, with no hopes of gaining the skills of finding a job, would you resort to stealing like an animal? Or just off yourself like an honorable citizen? I'm not trying to be bitter and mean at you, but that's what the ethics ultimately come down to. How should we deal with the population, if most were rendered " economically useless"?
You are setting up a straw man. In fact, multiple straw men. I didn’t say “theft is wrong”. I said social thievery as a policy is wrong. Theft can be necessary and justified in an emergency. That doesn’t mean it is appropriate to construct a society based on the premise that it is acceptable for privately earned and owned wealth to be confiscated for the unearned and undeserved benefit of others.
Next, we do live under a system of merit and always have. The best people get the best outcomes overall. Not to say there isn’t episodic injustice. But if you go with trend analysis, you will see that the smartest and hardest working and focused quality people do overall achieve the best lives. That’s just reality. Your job? To become one of them through effort.
Third, there is no relevant scenario where a person who wants to work is economically obsolete in America in 2020. There is ALWAYS a job, if you want it and are diligent in looking for it. Plus, there is always the option to hire yourself by starting a business. So the automation theory of widespread economic obsolescence of human beings is a fallacy. Every new advance has created displacement, and there have always been new and better jobs. The key is for a person to NEVER assume that he will have a stable and reliable job. That has never existed. A job is a temporary agreement to provide time and talent in exchange for money. You must always be improving yourself to take advantage of new opportunities. Stagnation is not an option, and stagnation is the active choice to become obsolete. It’s not unlucky, it’s not unfortunate, it’s not an accident. It is expected, normal, and a certainty. Improve or die.
By the way, Robin Hood as a trope was an evil dirtbag and should be hated, not revered.
The envy and hatred of people who succeed is what is driving UBI. Not virtue or care. It is simple hatred and envy of people who are good, just for being good. And that hatred ultimately is a projection. Of hatred for self for not living up to what should be rational expectations. That is also the reason for the hatred of capitalism. Again, projected hate because one does not measure up to being the person they should have been.
Much of the UBI arguments are based in irrational emotions and psychopathology. Not economics. Because if you just look at the facts and the economics, you see that no system has ever produced magnificence that even comes close to that produced by capitalism.
I keep seeing people both on the conservative side of the spectrum and the middle complain that Universal Basic Income (UBI) would not work out. The fact is I see it works out far better than the unemployment stimulus. Unemployment has a large backlog in many states especially for those that submitted at the begining of the shutdowns. Then you have the various donut holes of unemployment. Also unemployment has three more months of federal funding and some states are running dry.
What is your reason why you do or do not like UBI? If not, how do you fix unemployment?
Nothing is free in this life. And.... basic math rules the universe. It's non-negotiable.
Why do you point out the problems with the unemployment stimulus backlog and funding - AND YET.... not see the problems inherent in giving EVERYBODY a government check? This amazes me. You would have multiple times the expenditures for many times more people.
And from a pot of government money that is multiple times smaller. A country CANNOT pay entitlements to the citizens without a GDP adequate to the task of generating the funds which are then taxed (confiscated) to pay the bennies.
If you don't believe me... then try this simple experiment in your own family.
Starting next week, pay all your kids 1000 a month each to do chores. That will be their job.
If you have four kids, then you can reckon that each one of them is increasing your household income by 12K per year, and 48K overall.
Let's say you and your wife make 30K apiece. 60K total between you.
Now, by paying the kids, your household income jumps up to 108K per year. Voila. Your family is rich.
You are setting up a straw man. In fact, multiple straw men. I didn’t say “theft is wrong”. I said social thievery as a policy is wrong. Theft can be necessary and justified in an emergency. That doesn’t mean it is appropriate to construct a society based on the premise that it is acceptable for privately earned and owned wealth to be confiscated for the unearned and undeserved benefit of others.
Next, we do live under a system of merit and always have. The best people get the best outcomes overall. Not to say there isn’t episodic injustice. But if you go with trend analysis, you will see that the smartest and hardest working and focused quality people do overall achieve the best lives. That’s just reality. Your job? To become one of them through effort.
Third, there is no relevant scenario where a person who wants to work is economically obsolete in America in 2020. There is ALWAYS a job, if you want it and are diligent in looking for it. Plus, there is always the option to hire yourself by starting a business. So the automation theory of widespread economic obsolescence of human beings is a fallacy. Every new advance has created displacement, and there have always been new and better jobs. The key is for a person to NEVER assume that he will have a stable and reliable job. That has never existed. A job is a temporary agreement to provide time and talent in exchange for money. You must always be improving yourself to take advantage of new opportunities. Stagnation is not an option, and stagnation is the active choice to become obsolete. It’s not unlucky, it’s not unfortunate, it’s not an accident. It is expected, normal, and a certainty. Improve or die.
By the way, Robin Hood as a trope was an evil dirtbag and should be hated, not revered.
The envy and hatred of people who succeed is what is driving UBI. Not virtue or care. It is simple hatred and envy of people who are good, just for being good. And that hatred ultimately is a projection. Of hatred for self for not living up to what should be rational expectations. That is also the reason for the hatred of capitalism. Again, projected hate because one does not measure up to being the person they should have been.
Much of the UBI arguments are based in irrational emotions and psychopathology. Not economics. Because if you just look at the facts and the economics, you see that no system has ever produced magnificence that even comes close to that produced by capitalism.
UBI is just another fraudulent utopian argument used by collectivists to hopefully con you into voting them into power. Once they no longer need votes.... the real picture comes into view. UBI becomes whatever and WHENEVER they feel like paying it, and you and I WILL OBEY without complaint.
Like the old joke from the Soviet Union: "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work".
Once there's too many people to pay, they just.... let them starve to death as an economic policy.
It would be great to have UBI to replace all the social programs. But I don't think that's being discussed.
Not in this case but it is an economic crisis, especially considering how many people are stuck waiting for unemployment with no answer, the donut holes for unemployment or states running out on unemployment. If these people got their stimulus, that is all they got.
Yeah, exactly! You shouldn't get money for nothing. You can work for yourself and make your own money, not mooch off the system like a worthless leech. It's pretty easy to understand -- you work, you make money, you pay your bills. If you don't work, you don't get money and you can figure it out real fast that you better have a plan for survival.
That’s exactly correct. You want money, then go out and earn it. You don’t get to mooch off like a leech from someone else. Unemployed? Then go back to school, military, or learn a trade. Dead end job? Then go back to school, military, or learn a trade. Figure it out like everyone else did.
That’s exactly correct. You want money, then go out and earn it. You don’t get to mooch off like a leech from someone else. Unemployed? Then go back to school, military, or learn a trade. Dead end job? Then go back to school, military, or learn a trade. Figure it out like everyone else did.
You mean like the publicly traded companies who used the Payment Protection Plan loan system for under the franchisee exemption? Tell me if they aren't mooches too, I dare ya.
It is. UBI gives money to everyone. Unemployment gives it to those that were let go by no fault of their own. In normal times, unemployment is often sub $500 a week and lasts maybe a year so long as you continue to actively look for work each week.
Wrong, in nearly every State your UE benefits are 80% of your income.
If your monthly income was $1,000, then you'd get $800, not $500.
I don't doubt some people get $500/month, but then they were only making $626/month to begin with.
You might actually want to do some research instead of winging it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks
You are correct about automation.
No, they're wrong because they have no understanding. Automation was just a cool word they saw on a website. They don't actually know what it means or how it's used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks
I forget the figures but, thanks to advances in technology, we as individual workers are massively more productive than workers were in the 60s.
Propaganda.
Wages aren't based on Productivity, and the only correct measure of Productivity is unit volume per labor hours.
200,000 labor-hours; 1 Million widgets produced; unit price is $10; gross revenues $10 Million
190,000 labor-hours; 950,000 widgets produced; unit price is $12; gross revenues $11.4 Million
Did Productivity increase?
No, it did not, but you and the EPI will claim it did in order to spew propaganda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks
But when adjust for inflation, workers today earn substantially less.
More propaganda.
Demand-pull Inflation occurs when Demand for any good, service or resources exceeds the available Supply of that good, service or resource.
Demand-pull Inflation is part and parcel of the inviolable Laws of Economics and is intended to prevent goods, services and resources from becoming over-consumed, over-used and depleted.
Increasing wages to match the rate of Demand-pull Inflation does not stop Demand-pull Inflation, instead it rapidly accelerates it and causes to prices to rise higher and to rise higher at faster intervals until Demand Destruction is reached or the goods, services and resources are depleted or no longer available.
Explain in detail:
1) Your right to over-consume, over-use or deplete any good, service or resource and the source of that "right."
2) The advantage(s) or benefit(s) to society of over-consuming, over-using or depleting any good, service or resource until it is no longer available or ceases to exist.
Additionally, your claim is refuted by technology.
Calculate the cost of a Zenith or RCA television in 1970 with a 72" screen, High-Definition, cable-ready, remote control, programmable, with inputs for USB, HDMI and coax, and stereo and Dolby-sound that is so thin and light-weight it can be placed or mounted anywhere and get back to us.
The envy and hatred of people who succeed is what is driving UBI. Not virtue or care. It is simple hatred and envy of people who are good, just for being good. And that hatred ultimately is a projection. Of hatred for self for not living up to what should be rational expectations.
All the people I know who are in favor of this have nothing and do not want to get anything. They typically have started you tube channels and failed or other such -- non work things -- and do not want to go out and have to get a job. Hey I didn't want to get a job but no body gave a darn. I am not giving a darn now about the younger generations desire not to work.
If you feel so up on it, then wait for you the next generation to come of age and institute it, but somehow, I doubt that is going go happen.
You mean like the publicly traded companies who used the Payment Protection Plan loan system for under the franchisee exemption? Tell me if they aren't mooches too, I dare ya.
A short term 4-8 week pandemic emergency disaster program to allow workers to keep getting paid, and a welfare-statist such as yourself is going to complain?
All the people I know who are in favor of this have nothing and do not want to get anything. They typically have started you tube channels and failed or other such -- non work things -- and do not want to go out and have to get a job. Hey I didn't want to get a job but no body gave a darn. I am not giving a darn now about the younger generations desire not to work.
If you feel so up on it, then wait for you the next generation to come of age and institute it, but somehow, I doubt that is going go happen.
As soon as these progressive millennials finally do start achieving some success and having some money, we’ll see how altruistic they are. What will happen is this: they will ask the question: why is someone else telling me they need MY money more than I do??!!
It’s called growing up and getting real.
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