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Has our current unemployment worked? Many still haven't gotten payments and the only money they had come in was perhaps the stimulus. If it wasn't for mortgage forgiveness and utilities putting payments on hold, we would see more problems. Fact the stimulus, and unemployment systems haven't worked at all.
Every time someone comes up with a counter argument, you mention our current unemployment.
But you've been in favor of UBI far before this Covid-19 crisis, so let's take our current situation out of the equation because it isn't really relevant in discussing what you want.
Why should anyone get anything like this? You haven't really articulated a good reason for wanting it.
Every time someone comes up with a counter argument, you mention our current unemployment.
But you've been in favor of UBI far before this Covid-19 crisis, so let's take our current situation out of the equation because it isn't really relevant in discussing what you want.
Why should anyone get anything like this? You haven't really articulated a good reason for wanting it.
They have been desperately trying to use this crisis to push their agenda on several fronts. Note their other thread on student loan forgiveness for health care workers. I'm sure we'll soon see one claiming that coronavirus makes it necessary to legalize all illegal aliens immediately.
But don't dodge the question. You asserted that you've seen UBI work better so where exactly have you seen it work better?
Or just admit that you have no real-world example to provide that UBI works well.
Social Security works pretty good. It's designed to keep the elderly out of penury, and is a form of UBI. It certainly works better than no Social Security.
There are only about 40 million Americans living below the poverty level. A UBI would let us eliminate welfare, SNAP, subsidized housing, WIC, and lay off all the bureaucrats who make a living administering our current mess. It would be way cheaper than what we've got. UBI would not pay everyone, just the people below the poverty line.
You're talking about subsidized income - not universal basic income which everyone would get.
Social Security works pretty good. It's designed to keep the elderly out of penury, and is a form of UBI. It certainly works better than no Social Security.
SS is a system where your draw is based on your contribution. A system that requires you to participate on both ends, paying into as well as drawing out of, is vastly different from a system that allows one to only draw from, no matter what labels you try to pin on it. It's also a system to address a demographic that is often unable to work.
Every time someone comes up with a counter argument, you mention our current unemployment.
But you've been in favor of UBI far before this Covid-19 crisis, so let's take our current situation out of the equation because it isn't really relevant in discussing what you want.
Why should anyone get anything like this? You haven't really articulated a good reason for wanting it.
It is because this has exposed the issues in our unemployment system. We don't care about the unemployment system when the economy is good because it is expected that people likely already found a job or are well on their way to doing so. Not right now especially if small businesses cannot get the loans, even with public companies returning PPP monies.
I was for it in the past largely because at some point automation will get to a point where we won't be able to find or create jobs. That is largely a while away unless economic needs changes.
OK, if a person was laid off and cannot get money from unemployment of have not received their stimulus check yet, they are not self-sufficient. I am pretty sure a number of them are from small businesses got screwed with the PPP whether it was by insufficient funds or the fact that publicly traded companies and now they is no job to return to. What do you propose for these people?
These people, like all people, should be saving 10-20% of their take-home pay when they are working. This money should go into an emergency fund until you have saved 1-2 years of income. Then, when you are unemployed, you are providing for yourself and not sucking off others. Plus, no rush on finding a new job. You would have 1-2 years to be re-employed.
The problem with UBI is you are taking money involuntarily from some people for the unearned and undeserved benefit of others. That’s immoral and wrong.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
OK, if a person was laid off and cannot get money from unemployment of have not received their stimulus check yet, they are not self-sufficient. I am pretty sure a number of them are from small businesses got screwed with the PPP whether it was by insufficient funds or the fact that publicly traded companies and now they is no job to return to. What do you propose for these people?
This happened to me in the recession. While my business thrived over 16 years, I saved enough that when it went under in late 2008 I was able to live on savings and credit until I got a good job in May, 2009. It may be harder for people now if this pandemic lasts longer than the recession, but for them to be broke now is at least in part their own fault if they don't have savings and have to depend on help from family and friends. It's not the responsibility of the rest of us taxpayers.
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