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I keep seeing people both on the conservative side of the spectrum and the middle complain that Universal Basic Income (UBI) would not work out. The fact is I see it works out far better than the unemployment stimulus. Unemployment has a large backlog in many states especially for those that submitted at the begining of the shutdowns. Then you have the various donut holes of unemployment. Also unemployment has three more months of federal funding and some states are running dry.
What is your reason why you do or do not like UBI? If not, how do you fix unemployment?
If given across the board, consumer behavior time and time again has told us that prices will increase exactly that much.
You fix unemployment by removing greed and selfish ambitions. Something that will never disappear int his country. Therefore, you will always have unemployment, hunger, and poverty in the wealthiest most powerful country in the world.
Understand, you cannot have money and power without leaving others behind or creating a lower-class. People have to be willing to give up money and power so that their fellow countrymen can eat and have shelter.
Not willing. Rational self-interest and ambition makes the world go round. Always seeking to improve and be better and make more money and enjoy more naturalistic things is the essence of life.
I like this idea. I always wanted to be able to do this. Something like Aflac. You could buy whatever it was you wanted... say a 52 week policy or something. Though I have as little insurance as possible because I find insurance companies will do anything to keep from paying out when it comes time.
Does anyone think UBI would be disastrous from a social point of view? We already have far too many young men living in their parents house playing video games all day. If you gave them UBI they would just do that forever and use the UBI as spending money. There would be no incentive to get out of their parents home.
Absolutely. Being unpleasantly hungry is what drives improvement. The squirrel in the forest is smart enough to know that to survive, he must engage in survival behavior. But the American Bernie Sanders progressive has failed to learn what the squirrel knows.
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky You fix unemployment by removing greed and selfish ambitions. Something that will never disappear int his country. Therefore, you will always have unemployment, hunger, and poverty in the wealthiest most powerful country in the world.
Understand, you cannot have money and power without leaving others behind or creating a lower-class. People have to be willing to give up money and power so that their fellow countrymen can eat and have shelter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Not willing. Rational self-interest and ambition makes the world go round. Always seeking to improve and be better and make more money and enjoy more naturalistic things is the essence of life.
Marc, I would say we already give up money and power so that others aren't left behind. We're giving up both through taxation so welfare programs and free education can exist.
Adelphi, poor people mismanage money. One only needs to watch the news to see people in poor areas smoking cigarettes and playing with their dogs. Neither one are cheap. Or having babies they cannot afford to feed and clothe.
Giving away more money would lead to more mismanagement of that money. That's throwing money at a problem, not solving it.
Last edited by MPowering1; 04-28-2020 at 06:20 PM..
The CCC and WPA during the FDR administration gave money for work performed. What was wrong with that.
Being paid for sitting on your azz fosters bad habits at public expense.
When I was downsized during a recession, I kept searching for work. 200 applications later I found a job, lived frugally, paid off the mortgage and then retired. No hand outs thank you.
The CCC and WPA during the FDR administration gave money for work performed. What was wrong with that.
Being paid for sitting on your azz fosters bad habits at public expense.
When I was downsized during a recession, I kept searching for work. 200 applications later I found a job, lived frugally, paid off the mortgage and then retired. No hand outs thank you.
What work can we do with perfect social distancing measures we have in place and keep the workers entirely safe? I keep asking about the same the question and get deflected about a general time. This is MUCH different than any recession any of us living right now lived and worked through.
When people speak of UBI, it's on an ongoing basis and not related to this crisis. I have no problem helping people during this crisis but I'm not in favor of a UBI. This is why I think you're jumbling the argument.
I agree the stimulus check won't go far for people who have no jobs to go back to. Some industries may be so severely impacted that people will have long term problems finding another job.
A separate issue is unemployment benefits. Some states are so low weekly checks will be a drop in the bucket, while some are so high that adding the $600 additional benefit means they're making more to stay home.
But these are three different topics.
Not really. The stimulus is a one time check. The issue of how the unemployment is not being processed fast enough or at all makes a temporary UBI far more palatable.
What work can we do with perfect social distancing measures we have in place and keep the workers entirely safe? I keep asking about the same the question and get deflected about a general time. This is MUCH different than any recession any of us living right now lived and worked through.
There is no “entirely safe“. Nothing in life is guaranteed. The risk can be made acceptable but cannot be removed entirely. Life is a calculated risk. You don’t get to stay home and take money from other people who take the risk while you decide you don’t want to. You keep concentrating on what you should get, and you don’t concentrate at all on who you are taking it from or by what right.
Not really. The stimulus is a one time check. The issue of how the unemployment is not being processed fast enough or at all makes a temporary UBI far more palatable.
Unemployment departments in various states seem to have caught up. In four states I have friends who were furloughed, the unemployment department recently processed claims for both those who filed in March and those who filed two weeks ago. So being late no longer seems to be an issue.
If you are seriously trying to discuss something - you have to come up with an argument that is concise and doesn't involve other elements because it looks like you're throwing everything at the wall and hoping something will stick. They're not all bundled together. You don't implement UBI just because unemployment claims were delayed for five or six weeks.
Call it something other than UBI because that's muddling the discussion. If you're saying you think weekly temporary relief would be helpful to some, than I agree with you. And that's already a thing by way of the additional $600 a week. In states with very low unemployment benefits, I wouldn't mind seeing an increase in their weekly benefit, and lowering of benefits in other states. Nobody should be pulling in more than they make when they're working - that's insane.
But you can't just hand out money without strict stipulations and guidelines because the minute people started being furloughed, there were damn food lines. Why? They immediately ran out of all their money and food? No, it's because people are lazy and greedy and if they can get something for nothing, they'll take it.
I'm also in favor of working in exchange for government help and I've been saying that for years.
Free anything isn't good - and it's never free - everyone else breaking their backs are paying for it.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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If UBI replaces the current welfare system it would not cost any more than we already pay out. The current system rewards some undeserving people with free everything while other more deserving people get nothing. Or it takes two years to first receive any benefits and by that time they are financially destroyed.
In an ideal world everyone should pull their own weight. In our modern world that is increasingly difficult. There are people with good work ethic who are not employable. The old saying was "at least dig a ditch". But not one person with a machine can dig a ditch. A couple dudes with dynamite and a dump truck can mine a mountain of coal that used to employ 300 miners for the same task.
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