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Old 03-10-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: East Chicago, IN
2,713 posts, read 2,588,579 times
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I think the "old enough to fight" argument is somewhat of a cliche that never really applied. How many brats are willing to go fight as opposed to open up a beer safe and sound at home? It's apples and oranges, man. If you want to drink, then go join up if you want it to be a fair argument.

 
Old 03-10-2009, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeldude View Post
Lowering the age to 18 would also help us get out of this recession
How? Alcohol taxes are already PAINFULLY low and any additional purchasing wouldn't add any real revenue to government coffers.

As far as boosting retail revenues and causing more business in general, it might. But then it would also be kids spending money they don't need to be spending in the first place...leading to even more people not making it in today's economy. It's a vicious cycle.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
I think the "old enough to fight" argument is somewhat of a cliche that never really applied. How many brats are willing to go fight as opposed to open up a beer safe and sound at home? It's apples and oranges, man. If you want to drink, then go join up if you want it to be a fair argument.
Agree 100%. These kids proudly announce "I'm an adult. I can go die for my country." I don't see that willingness to actually serve.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
I think the "old enough to fight" argument is somewhat of a cliche that never really applied. How many brats are willing to go fight as opposed to open up a beer safe and sound at home? It's apples and oranges, man. If you want to drink, then go join up if you want it to be a fair argument.
its not too often someone complains about a cliche then follows up with one (apples and oranges). but the old enough to fight argument does apply, its a question of responsibility.

The government believes an 18 year old is responsible enough to: get married, have children, buy a house, vote, enter the armed services and possibly fight in a war, but if that man drinks a beer with dinner in the confines of his own home in the company of his wife and kid he has broken the law. An 18 year old is old enough to handle alcohol, nobody can debate that.

The REAL debate is what will the 18 year old do for those under the age of 18. will they disperse alcohol to minors (very likely) or will they only consume the alcohol themselves. Drinking should be like driving, it should be licensed and the right to buy alcohol taken away for any violation, like distributing to minors, drinking underage etc. and you cannot get your license for x # of months/years depending on number of violations. if a person can lose their right to buy alcohol you may find they are less likely to risk distribution to minors.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 09:48 AM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,228,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
How? Alcohol taxes are already PAINFULLY low and any additional purchasing wouldn't add any real revenue to government coffers.

As far as boosting retail revenues and causing more business in general, it might. But then it would also be kids spending money they don't need to be spending in the first place...leading to even more people not making it in today's economy. It's a vicious cycle.
That part wasn't meant to be taken so seriously, I don't know why you would single out that one line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Agree 100%. These kids proudly announce "I'm an adult. I can go die for my country." I don't see that willingness to actually serve.
This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Fact is that if the government feels you are mature enough to choose to get married or lose your life in a war, you are definitely mature enough to choose to drink a beer.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
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My solution:

1. Keep the drinking age at 21 and increase enforcement and consequences for underage drinking (not including the bracelets, but including less intrusive measures).

2. Increase consequences for providing alcohol to minors.

3. Increase consequences for DWI.

4. Dramatically increase alcohol taxes...this could be used to help fund trauma care, etc. and could also to be used to help fund increased enforcement and consequences.

5. Increase at least some of the other ages to 21, including the military age (I don't care about any problems this may cause in the military...it's worth it). Possibly the age of majority. However, the age of majority is very different from statutory age restrictions as many of you don't seem to understand. The age of majority has to do with the ability to have contracts enforced against a person. NOTHING ELSE. Everything else is entirely different. A statutory age restriction can be entirely different from the age of majority. I would not advocate raising all the statutory age restrictions to 21.

For example, in my state, a kid who is 17 or older is prosecuted for a crime as an adult. That part of the law even defines "adult as any person 17 years of age or older" and "child as any person under 17 years of age." Then we have 21 for our alcohol age. Kids are required to remain in school until the end of the school year when they turn 18...not just until their birthday. Child support is required until a kid turns 18 or is no longer in high school, whichever is later. The age to consent to sex is 17. The legal age for tobacco is 18. 16 and 17 year olds can be emancipated, in which case they have reached the age of majority early. However, if they are 16, they still cannot consent to sex. And at 16 and 17, they still cannot smoke. Age of majority and statutory age restrictions are different.

6. Dramatically increase education of high school and college age kids regarding alcohol and the consequences that excessive alcohol use can bring.

The main reason that the military likes 18-20 years olds is that they are better at conforming...they're like dogs who can be trained easily. They don't have the maturity to question anything and the idea of being in the military scares them so much they are extremely loyal to their superiors. A good thing in some ways...but bad in others. They should have the opportunity to develop their own views and train their own minds as young adults.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-10-2009 at 10:31 AM..
 
Old 03-10-2009, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,464 times
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afoigrokerkok, did you ever drink while underage?
 
Old 03-10-2009, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
afoigrokerkok, did you ever drink while underage?
Yes. As I said in several previous posts. I know that absolutely nothing good came from it and I'm very thankful that nothing terrible came from it. Now that I understand how terrible the consequences could have been, I'm not going to sit here and say it's OK just because I did it.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-10-2009 at 03:11 PM..
 
Old 03-10-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,715,448 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
afoigrokerkok, did you ever drink while underage?
I drank when I was 17, 18, 19. As a result of making "decisions" or rather the lack of proper judgement, I got my girlfriend pregnant. As a result, I had to drop out of college. I worked in hamburger joints and ice cream parlors. I got a job washing diapers. I got a better job driving a bob tail truck. I suffered mightily--at least in my opinion. I finally graduated from college when I was 39 years old.

If I had been sober I'm sure I would still have had sex with my girlfriend. But I am also sure that I would have used a condom. Of course a condom is not perfect protection--but it would have been better than the "nothing" I used.

So, say anything you like about the fairness of being a warrior vs. a drinker: It is STILL an absolute fact that human judgement develops after human emotions. To legalize the taking of substances that can impede what judgement teenagers have would be folly. To expect that a law will stop the behavior is also folly. However, a law can reduce the incidence rate of teenage drinking.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 07:36 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,536,143 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
I think the "old enough to fight" argument is somewhat of a cliche that never really applied. How many brats are willing to go fight as opposed to open up a beer safe and sound at home? It's apples and oranges, man. If you want to drink, then go join up if you want it to be a fair argument.


the point being, if the federal goverment is willing to sign up 18 year olds for military service, let them vote, serve on juries and a whole slew of other responsibilities. then letting them crack open a bud and drink it, is not going to make a bit of difference at all.
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