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While there certainly do seem to be advantages to being white in many areas, I'm always perplexed as to the reason for these lists being presented. Am I supposed to feel guilty of being white ? Should I aspire to move to a predomintly black area (country, or US city) so I don't feel guilty anymore ?
Other than drawing attention to race and skin color...which seems to be what those who claim to be color blind seem to incessantly do. I don't see how we're ever going to "forget" about race, or truly create the color blind society that MLB aspired to as long as we keep bringing up color and race all the time. If a white qualified kid loses a college scholarship to a minority kid due to a minority "preference"....my guess is that you just created or at least boosted this kids racism quotent. Seems kind of bass ackwards doesn't it ?
Any thinking person who has ever traveled knows how it feels to be in the minority racewise. Ya, it definately feels different when you look around and see a sea of faces a different color than yours. So if you don't like it and it makes you uncomfortable enough, move on to another place that is better for you. Like attracts like...not a new concept. Rich people live among other rich folks generally. Middle class too seem to stick together in the same areas. People who like lawns live in the suburbs....most people do feel out of place when not around others like them...weather it be race, income, physical traits or whatever.
As long as their are no laws restricting anyone civil rights and equal treatment....it just seems to me to be nothing more than stirring things up when race is continually brought up by making others feel guilty. Guilt is NOT a very good motivator and force just breeds anger and contempt....as peoples attitudes change, their behavior will follow. There really is not shortcut to this process....attitudes need to change first.
Jasper, for the most part, I agree with you.
While I do believe that White privilege still exists in some facets of American life, I'm not too concerned about anyone feeling "guilty". What offends me and many non-Whites the most, is the denial that it exists and that it is of no benefit.
The good news--if you wanna call it good news--is that the recession is hurting everybody, and it's shaking us all into a harsh reality. When tough times hit us all, there won't be much privilege ... or guilt.
Man I just don't get it.. Maybe I'm blind or stupid or both. When I was in the Service '79-'91, I had many many black friends some who were very close. Actually dated outside my race. No one I knew at time had a problem with that either way. I could go on liberty with whoever I wanted, whenever I wanted. We could go to a club and I might have been the only WG in the place I never had a friggen problem not one!I even stay in touch with several shipmates black and white. Now I live in Minnesota. I don't think there are any black people in this town (pop 1990) I just don't get the "White Privilege" thing.. I don't feel guilty for a damn thing in my life nothing. I think the list is a bunch of crap that drives the wedge between the Races deeper.........
Man I just don't get it.. Maybe I'm blind or stupid or both. When I was in the Service '79-'91, I had many many black friends some who were very close. Actually dated outside my race. No one I knew at time had a problem with that either way. I could go on liberty with whoever I wanted, whenever I wanted. We could go to a club and I might have been the only WG in the place I never had a friggen problem not one!I even stay in touch with several shipmates black and white. Now I live in Minnesota. I don't think there are any black people in this town (pop 1990) I just don't get the "White Privilege" thing.. I don't feel guilty for a damn thing in my life nothing. I think the list is a bunch of crap that drives the wedge between the Races deeper.........
I don't understand where this guilty feeling comes from. If you say that you had black friends, dated outside your race,etc then why do you think you need to feel guilty? If you've never felt that anything on the list was not true then it sounds like you don't have the need for that knowledge.
There are many things on the list that still happen to this day. The list offers more of a perspective IMO then a need for people to be guilty.
I don't understand where this guilty feeling comes from. If you say that you had black friends, dated outside your race,etc then why do you think you need to feel guilty? If you've never felt that anything on the list was not true then it sounds like you don't have the need for that knowledge.
There are many things on the list that still happen to this day. The list offers more of a perspective IMO then a need for people to be guilty.
I don't feel guilt....but the reason I think these things can cause guilt, or in some cases are intended to cause guilt is that those of us who were born white did nothing to "gain" these advantages, yet we have them, so we really didn't "earn" them by anything we did.....so logic concludes we're at an unfair advantage....if we're at an unfair advantage we're supposed to feel guilty.
As a white person, in my opinion all I can do is live my life to the best of my ability using what I was born with (yes, including my white skin), work hard, raise my family and treat everyone with the "golden rule" in mind.
We should all treat everyone we meet (minorities included) with the respect they have earned and when we see someone being treated poorly we should speak our piece. I just don't see how continually bringing up racial differences or treating other races differently, whether it be minority set asides or minority afirmative action, or a whites only club will ever cure what ails us. Let's face it, lists like this are what affirmative action and set asides are based on.
Changing peoples attitudes is the only thing that will ever work. Laws mandating such things only serve to make racists out of innocent folks (those white privilige folks) who feel sandbagged by something they have no control over....their skin color. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I don't feel guilt....but the reason I think these things can cause guilt, or in some cases are intended to cause guilt is that those of us who were born white did nothing to "gain" these advantages, yet we have them, so we really didn't "earn" them by anything we did.....so logic concludes we're at an unfair advantage....if we're at an unfair advantage we're supposed to feel guilty.
As a white person, in my opinion all I can do is live my life to the best of my ability using what I was born with (yes, including my white skin), work hard, raise my family and treat everyone with the "golden rule" in mind.
We should all treat everyone we meet (minorities included) with the respect they have earned and when we see someone being treated poorly we should speak our piece. I just don't see how continually bringing up racial differences or treating other races differently, whether it be minority set asides or minority afirmative action, or a whites only club will ever cure what ails us. Let's face it, lists like this are what affirmative action and set asides are based on.
Changing peoples attitudes is the only thing that will ever work. Laws mandating such things only serve to make racists out of innocent folks (those white privilige folks) who feel sandbagged by something they have no control over....their skin color. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Well, I don't agree with your thoughts about supposing to feel guilty. I can only say that the list discussed in this thread I feel is meant to point out things that people think and may say which may or may not be based in truth. Its also meant as a sort of insight to some of the things black people go through that others may not understand.
If looking at the list makes you feel guilty, Im not sure what else to say except that's unfortunate. If looking at the list makes you say hmmm, that's interesting or I didn't realize that, then it did what it was meant to do.
I will agree with you when you speak about everyone treating each other with respect. By doing this we can all relate to each others struggles and continue to move forward together.
The benefit of a list like this is for a white person who wants to "walk a mile" in another's shoes. If this list is forced upon whites who do not hold racist thoughts or feelings, it does feel like someone is telling them they must feel guilty.
But for whites to tell minorities of any shade that they should "just get over it" it would do them well to look at this list and see that is what many of their friends, co workers and fellow church members of a minority race have had to deal with on a regular basis here in a majority white country. In this light, it isn't here to induce guilt, but for whites who rarely if ever have to be aware of the color of their skin to realize that for many, they must constantly be aware. It is a feeling of always having to be on edge that most whites never have to live with.
Funny thing, the only time I was really conscious of "white privilege" was when I went to Uganda on a mission trip. Wherever we went, the six whites in our team were very obvious. To have an American group visit their area and their churches was seen as a great honor. Heads turned everywhere we went, we were treated like celebrities or at the least like great honored guests. Perhaps it was my naivete, but I felt safer and more at home than any other time I have been in the minority. Of course our Ugandan host leaders were always with us and were watchful and made sure we didn't go to places they felt we would be in any danger, but even in the crowded streets of the capital, I always felt a feeling of being safe and of even being protected, like the last thing any Ugandan wanted was for their country to be known as the place where the white American visitors were harmed in any way.
White privilege does exist. It's not the fault of most people alive now. It goes back to the concept of acquired wealth. Assuming that your grand parents owned their home, then your parents would have gained from said home. Now your parents are wealthier. Its kind of a snowball effect. Well, whites were allowed to purchase homes at a higher rate than other minorities. Whites, in general, were not as poor as Blacks. Blacks were subjected to worse treatment. Thankfully that has changed. I consider very few people to be racist. However, I understand that on my White side we benefited by being able to buy a house and achieving middle income status in the 1890s-1900s. That set the tone for our present situation. The same for many families.
Currently white privilege is weak. I still have the comments from time to time from people saying "Congrats on pulling yourself up from the inner city and going to college". Firstly, I'm not from the inner city. I'm from suburbia. Secondly, my parents were paying half of everything. The automatic assumption being darker is poorer (a fair assumption, but not always true). It is true that hiring managers will look more favorably on white applicants. Not saying that there are not hiring managers who look less favorably on white applicants, but this is less likely. So the "benefits" are there. Again, these things are not always "racist". Ignorance and also general heuristics (he looks like me, and I like me, so therefore I choose the person who best "fits" me) also play a huge role.
I don't understand where this guilty feeling comes from. If you say that you had black friends, dated outside your race,etc then why do you think you need to feel guilty? If you've never felt that anything on the list was not true then it sounds like you don't have the need for that knowledge.
There are many things on the list that still happen to this day. The list offers more of a perspective IMO then a need for people to be guilty.
NO NO Not saying I feel guilty I just don't understand the need for some to feel that way.
I think as you work your way up the social or Class ladder you always find privilege, In towns were you don't have many black people or minorities, white people complain about the privilege of the desendents of the founding fathers, or the wealthy , in South Africa I talked to young white people who were leaving to live in Australia because the system of Aparthied discriminated against all but the top 5% wealthy and military class, Sure you can dress a white person up in a suit an make him look like he is some body, but he won't get a job in a small town bank unless he is from one of a few families who can be trusted around money, In Booker T. Washington's book "Up From Slavery"(1906?) He said after his family was freed they lived in a minning camp with "The worst sort of whites and black People " poor whites and all blacks have always been on the same class level in the eyes of some wealthty people. Privilege is a value assigned to a person based on some intangible aspect of his identity. I think the "value" that society thinks its getting from this class or "race" of people is a perception of stability .
Last edited by thriftylefty; 01-07-2009 at 07:02 AM..
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