Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In an economy as rich as ours, why are we talking about being so poor as to forego food and shelter? This is a defect in common human decency and civility, not a defect in philosophy. Which places it outside the scope of this discussion.
Not at all. We're talking about the root causes of poverty here, which again returns back to the fact that most of the truly poor are that way because they have not availed themselves of the multiple resources that society provides to avoid poverty in the first place.
After all, as a taxpayer, I subsidize free education, welfare, housing subsidies, food stamps, job training, and Head Start, just to name a few out of a universe of programs. So I would assert that we as a society have already done everything to help the poor not be that way. It is not our collective fault if the poor, despite all our pleas, refuse to avail themselves of our collective largesse.
Not at all. We're talking about the root causes of poverty here, which again returns back to the fact that most of the truly poor are that way because they have not availed themselves of the multiple resources that society provides to avoid poverty in the first place.
After all, as a taxpayer, I subsidize free education, welfare, housing subsidies, food stamps, job training, and Head Start, just to name a few out of a universe of programs. So I would assert that we as a society have already done everything to help the poor not be that way. It is not our collective fault if the poor, despite all our pleas, refuse to avail themselves of our collective largesse.
Everything? Have we guaranteed every family a basic subsistence income, whether they "earn" it or not? Your wonderful largesse consists of setting up employment offices in inaccessible locations, which the poor can crawl to on their hands and knees to beg for a job, and be told there are none for people with their qualifications.
As an insurance preiumm payer, I subsidize the consequences of your second helpings, or your extra dash of salt, or your junk food diet, or your staying out in the sun too long, or your kids' high-school sports injuries. I subsidize your risk while talking on a cell phone while you drive, or commuting in rush hour traffic. I do not complain. As a member of your society, I protect you. I could blame you and say it's your fault, but I recognize that our soceity is made up of all different kinds of people, and all are entitled to liberty and dignity. We all, as members of a common society, share the responsibility for the well-being and dignity of each other. I'n not going to tell you that I gave you the opportunity to eat a better diet, so to hell with you if your arteries harden.
The "root cause of poverty" is exactly the same everywhere on our planet. It is the absence of general wealth in the society as a whole. America has no "root cause" that would justify any American being without the means to shelter and feed himself or his family.
A civilized society labors collectively to provide everyone with what they need to survive, not the opportunity to earn what they need. It is not civilized to throw people to the lions and tell them "We have given you the opportunity to kill the lions".
True. But we're not talking about being rich. We're talking about being poor. That means forgoing basic shelter, food, and other comforts for the family. Unless, of course, one chooses to become an ascetic such as Gandhi.
If all you can afford are shelter and food, aren't you still poor? I can't afford a vehicle of my own, to have to pay for gas, insurance, registration--but I always have enough for a meal a day, and a roof over my head. For a long while, I was taking care of TWO people on my income...and I commend her for being able to budget money so wisely.
Not at all. We're talking about the root causes of poverty here, which again returns back to the fact that most of the truly poor are that way because they have not availed themselves of the multiple resources that society provides to avoid poverty in the first place.
After all, as a taxpayer, I subsidize free education, welfare, housing subsidies, food stamps, job training, and Head Start, just to name a few out of a universe of programs. So I would assert that we as a society have already done everything to help the poor not be that way. It is not our collective fault if the poor, despite all our pleas, refuse to avail themselves of our collective largesse.
Education isn't as free as you think. A Pell grant isn't going to pay your way through college. You either need savings to expend on it, or you have to be willing to take on a debt load that you have no guarantees of being well-off enough to repay.
Education isn't as free as you think. A Pell grant isn't going to pay your way through college. You either need savings to expend on it, or you have to be willing to take on a debt load that you have no guarantees of being well-off enough to repay.
Or, work hard enough, and study hard enough, to get a Scholarship - a full bore scholarship -
And, many "kids" do just this.
Or, in the alternative, with those student loans, after graduation, give back - work in various public sector areas - work in poor inner city areas for a time - and watch your loans being repaid for you.
A student who is a promising candidate for a degree in a field in which a good salary is likely to follow, has a very good chance of getting generous scholarship money, and few of them are kept out of school for reasons of funding. We are actually overeducating our kids, and there are a lot of people with college degrees who are unable to get a job much better than a HS dropout is qualified for. There is no validity to the theory that if we put 30-million kids through medical school, we would have 30-million doctors making 250K a year and putting it all back into the economy and buying 30-million Range Rovers for themselves and 30-million Escalades for their wives and 30-million 2-thousand-square-foot summer homes on the shores of our shady lakes. There will still be poor people.
A student who is a promising candidate for a degree in a field in which a good salary is likely to follow, has a very good chance of getting generous scholarship money, and few of them are kept out of school for reasons of funding. We are actually overeducating our kids, and there are a lot of people with college degrees who are unable to get a job much better than a HS dropout is qualified for. There is no validity to the theory that if we put 30-million kids through medical school, we would have 30-million doctors making 250K a year and putting it all back into the economy and buying 30-million Range Rovers for themselves and 30-million Escalades for their wives and 30-million 2-thousand-square-foot summer homes on the shores of our shady lakes. There will still be poor people.
I would have repped you for this if I could have...
A student who is a promising candidate for a degree in a field in which a good salary is likely to follow, has a very good chance of getting generous scholarship money, and few of them are kept out of school for reasons of funding. We are actually overeducating our kids, and there are a lot of people with college degrees who are unable to get a job much better than a HS dropout is qualified for. There is no validity to the theory that if we put 30-million kids through medical school, we would have 30-million doctors making 250K a year and putting it all back into the economy and buying 30-million Range Rovers for themselves and 30-million Escalades for their wives and 30-million 2-thousand-square-foot summer homes on the shores of our shady lakes. There will still be poor people.
Excatly there only x amount of jobs for college graduates available. If everyone went to college then there would be to many people qualified and not enough job openings. Somone has to work these non college jobs.
Education isn't as free as you think. A Pell grant isn't going to pay your way through college. You either need savings to expend on it, or you have to be willing to take on a debt load that you have no guarantees of being well-off enough to repay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
A student who is a promising candidate for a degree in a field in which a good salary is likely to follow, has a very good chance of getting generous scholarship money, and few of them are kept out of school for reasons of funding. We are actually overeducating our kids, and there are a lot of people with college degrees who are unable to get a job much better than a HS dropout is qualified for. There is no validity to the theory that if we put 30-million kids through medical school, we would have 30-million doctors making 250K a year and putting it all back into the economy and buying 30-million Range Rovers for themselves and 30-million Escalades for their wives and 30-million 2-thousand-square-foot summer homes on the shores of our shady lakes. There will still be poor people.
excellent posts...
As was stated: make every last person in the US (or world) work their fannies off to become qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. Let's say EVERYONE is highly-qualified, hard working, do-whatever-it-takes perfection-on-earth. There would still be poverty in our system. Even if there wasn't ONE lazy person left on the face of the planet.
You're all using laziness as a scapegoat. It's not the root of the problem. It's a side issue.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
