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The children of first-generation African and Caribbean black immigrants enjoy a higher household income than whites in this country..
Without seeing any data related to this, I would at first assume that the first-generation children of ALL legal immigrants enjoy a high standard of education and income. The great majority of legal immigrants admitted to the USA are well-trained professionals. It should not surprise anyone that the children of well-trained professionals become fairly well-placed in the job market. Furthermore, in any grouping of American school children, there is an ovedrwhelming preponderance of the children of recent immigrants who are the outstanding achievers.
What a load of judgemental bullcrap. God you must enjoy shouting down from your ivory tower. Everything you write is most degrading and discouraging. History shows that people have never got worse or less skilled or lazier, times have just changed and society has always gone around in circles. Read some history books. Even Socrates was saying in his day:
I have just come out of university with a degree and now am on the jobmarket looking hard to get into a position I'm interested in and yes I have to claim state allowances to actually bloody survive thanks before I get my new job in 2 months, then I will be paying taxes and contributing to society. No one needs your judgemental stereotyping of society.
Either that or I would be on the streets. Come face to face with me and tell me I am lazy, unskilled, and stupid. Society and life in general is what you make of it. People should be allowed to live how they want and learn their lessons from experience.
I really get the idea that most of these "great debates" are just a cesspit for losers with big heads and opinions to rant about society and "the downward trend" and how "it was better in my day" and all that garbage, without a shred of insight, understanding or intelligence. Thanks "Cleatis" for contributing to the scum.
I think you misunderstood where I was coming from. I am kind of saying that people are lazy unskilled and stupid all across the board - not just those without jobs. I do feel that the modern job has lost much of what makes it a trade. There are no more watch makers, only people who fill the watch making machine with parts. There are no more cobblers, again just a machine. A modern day mason may be a skilled man, but the job was a lot harder before. stones had to be cut by hand and pulled into place with ropes and levers. Look at building the Parthenon, the Greeks built it in less than 10 years and varied some of their cuts and measurements within less than the width of a hair. We have been trying to rebuild it for 30 years and with all the modern technology and brilliance of modern times we still can't put it back together and build it as good as they did. I'm not saying that there have never been ignorant people. I am however saying the the MTV generation isn't going to build a Parthenon any time soon.
I understand that there are people out there that work hard and who really try and still get nowhere - In fact I think they're all over. I chalk this up mostly to the job. Jobs I think, have become cheap, again, no one builds a watch anymore, they just run the machine that does it. My remarks on lazyness I thought were somewhat clear. Again, the way people lived 100 years ago would eat a modern suburbanite alive in terms of work and labor. I am simply saying that I have a little more respect for the guy that builds a house with hand tools and makes every cut with a hand saw than someone who makes $11/hour answering the phone. I'm sorry, but one of these jobs is obviously much harder work. So no, I don't feel sorry for the guy that answers phones, or shuffles papers when they say their job is just SO hard. As modern Americans we have it pretty easy when it comes to work and manual labor.
As far as my comment on college degrees, I never said getting one was easy. College requires a lot of hard work. I said that so many people are getting college degrees that a gollege degree is going to be commonplace. It's supply and demand. X amount of jobs vs. X amount of people with college degrees.... Everyone having one makes it not so special. I am sorry that you are having such a hard time finding work - many of us are in that very boat. But when two or three times more people have a college degree now yours isn't all that special any more, it's just the new job requirment. I don't like this trend, and I surely think that with all the work to get a degree that one should be able to get a good job. This is simply my observation of what I think. I am sorry of I offended you, but this is a forum to exchange ideas and you're bound to come across some that are less than savory. There's no need to get so worked up
Without seeing any data related to this, I would at first assume that the first-generation children of ALL legal immigrants enjoy a high standard of education and income. The great majority of legal immigrants admitted to the USA are well-trained professionals. It should not surprise anyone that the children of well-trained professionals become fairly well-placed in the job market. Furthermore, in any grouping of American school children, there is an ovedrwhelming preponderance of the children of recent immigrants who are the outstanding achievers.
That's simply not true, particularly when you look at Caribbean immigrants. I brought this little gem of a statistic to bear because the poster I responded to took the lazy route and attributed poverty to bigotry and prejudice. Yeah, that was definitely true in the 60s, and to lesser degrees in the 70s, and 80s. But today? No way. And the fact that a man whose parents were from Jamaica has skin as black as a man whose parents were born in the United States--and achieves a lot more--means that a lot of barriers have been destroyed in this country. The door is open. All one has to do is walk right in.
If your friend works in social services they have been overly exposed to a certain "type" of person. There is no doubt that the system currently in place has created a generation (or two or three) of people who will forever be poor, forever be uneducated, and maybe even considered lazy. To deny this is to deny reality.
But there is more to the story and more to being poor than what you friend witnesses. I'm sure even he can point out some people who have fallen on hard times and just need a little help getting by. He may not see many since those people often have a support network of family and friends who are there to help each other out, keeping the away from social services altogether.
That's simply not true, particularly when you look at Caribbean immigrants. I brought this little gem of a statistic to bear because the poster I responded to took the lazy route and attributed poverty to bigotry and prejudice..
If what I said is not true, then how do you account for the fact that on virtually every list of the nation's elite outstanding high school achievers, every honor roll list, every list of valedictorians, a majority of them have names that suggest that either they or thier parents were born outside the USA, usually Asia. In my yellow pages, about half of all practicing medical doctors in this city have very foreign-sounding names. A doctor is more likely to be an immigrant than a lawn-care workers.
If you brought a little gem of a statistic, I did not catch it. Could you repeat it? Do you think that neither bigotry nor prejuduce contributes to the existence of poverty in this country?
I never said all poor people were lazy, stupid or unskilled, I just said my relatives thought a good percentage of them were. If you are smart, hard working and skilled in the ways of work you have a much better chance to make good money. Can we agree with that?
Assuming you managed to get hired for those positions. You can apply as many times as you'd like, there's no guarantee anyone will GIVE you a job--even if you THINK you've earned it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulous1
You aren't with it. There are so many with Computer Science degrees who cannot find jobs unless they go overseas.
I would not advise anyone to go into computers in college. The jobs are just not there. This trend has been going on for a long time.
Engineering...depends on which kind.
This is very wrong. I work in IT and weekly I check on available jobs (just in case). I could quit today and have a job within a week. I know of more than a few companies here in Pittsburgh that are struggling to find good people in IT. And about overseas, that is mostly BS. The ONLY people in IT we have laid off are our overseas contractors. Smart IT workers are in very high demand in the US. To say otherwise shows you don't know anything from real experience and are only parroting what the common (and incorrect) sentiment is.
Engineering is the same way. An Engineer (especially mechanical, chemical and electrical) could graduate today and find a job within a week. I personally know a few people who simply can't find engineers to hire.
I have been reading the posts... most are basically full of opinions...
Here is a study of wealth vs intelligence - apparently there is no relationship. The biggest indicator of wealth is ... HOW MUCH SOMEONE SAVES. like "The Millionaire Next Door".
Many fields are so ephemeral, that it is not always productive to spend ten years acquiring the necessary skills to fill what are now vacancies. Our technological society is changing so rapidly, almost all job skills will become obsolete before the worker is in his 40s. People who made a lucky guess about the future of technology may still be able to find jobs, maybe for a decade or more. But many will see the demand for their specialty disappear even before they get their degree.
Ten years ago I subscribed for internet service with an ISP in a space above a resaurant on Main Street. Cutting edge visionary. Where is he now? Same place you'll be in ten years, unless you make another lucky guess. How long will you keep putting your chips on red?
Getting a 100K studnet loan and taking the money to a casino will probably give a more certain return than betting that there will be jobs in the future in the field you choose in college.
You have not presented a viable solution to the prospects for our future labor market.
If our society keep demanding innovations at a rate faster than we can train people to service the demand, it's easy to predict the outcome. Remember the Yugo? Think of a future in which everything is a Yugo. Or Windows Vista.
I never said all poor people were lazy, stupid or unskilled, I just said my relatives thought a good percentage of them were. If you are smart, hard working and skilled in the ways of work you have a much better chance to make good money. Can we agree with that?
So then, Is the key word here all? You've made your statement more than once but don't think for a minute when I see your discrepancies, I wont bring it to your attention. Agreed, Weekend??
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Ok
