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I... nor is there ever going to be a day where the majority of White Americans either recognize or own up to the damage history cuased.
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I don't feel talking about history is productive. It only brings out wounds for those on the losing end, and smug denial from the winners.
Just wanted to touch on these two points.
The majority of whites do acknowledge the damage of history, if you talk to them candidly. What they won't do is take ownership of a wrong they didn't commit, some 150 years later. They have their own plate of problems to deal with.
Talking about history is productive, lest one repeats it. Analyzing it for object lessons is valuable. The entire body of case law, for example is nothing but history for the analysis. (Though I'd argue, medical, scientific, industrial knowledge is a much more objective kind of knowledge. Political, case law, etc. are about opinions. Consider that even Aristotle broke things into "The Logic" and "The Rhetoric".)
Well, at least you're honest. I guess you could argue that in a truly Libertarian world an employer would have the right to say "No Blacks", but is that really and truly the type of world you'd want to live in? I'm sure you'd be mightly disappointed if someone said "No Whitey".
As a bi-racial individual, It's sad to see here in 2010 people who still feel this way.
People have said, "No Whitey" and it's easier to do at present than "No Blackey". I've had it happen. I'd give details, but don't want the other folks involved to be identifiable. Suffice to say, lost savings from that event go an easy $50K... savings not accrued since, may go over $100K+, not to mention in the future.
I've paid the price for the current situation economically.
And that's before we talk about a couple of murders close to me. One of a white gal who married a black gal, who then murdered her.
How is Affirmative Action not "No Whitey" in a sense, as an example. How is the idea that a "White Caucus" would be "Nazi" but Black, Jewish, and Hispanic Caucuses are a reality at this very minute.
How are "Percentage of Subcontractors owned by minorities or women" not the same?
I once looked into the price of a McDonald's franchise in the 90's. $300,000 down on a loan of a million... unless you were a woman... then $66,000 down.
So to live in a world where I could say "No Blacks" would only be a step towards restoring equality.
As long as "For any reason or no reason" applies to me, why can't I apply it to others? "Equal in the eyes of the law", right?
As for Africanization? I've seen entire communities in my home region go black, and then go blight, and eventually buildings had to be razed.
I speak from what I've seen. Not some philosophy. Trust me, I sounded like the Kumbaya Polyana folks as a kid. Life taught me different. (Sad to say.)
And like I said, I and my family will live where we want to live, and no amount of chest-thumping and eye-rolling icons and jumping up and down and screaming is going to prevent that...bottom line is, I'm grown, I'm a tax-paying American citizen, with no criminal record, and the ability to move about freely in a society where I contribute positively EVERY-SINGLE-DAY...and no amount of any 'I'm white and I say you're a criminal' posturing is gonna stop me...end of story
How about instead of going around talking about "Black Crime", actually use reason and logic and realize that when push comes to shove, 99.99999% of AAs are not and never have been a danger to you and yours. How about instead of using BET as your guidebook to your perceptions, actually go and read some AA literature, or look up such men as WEB DuBois and Frederick Douglass. How about actually going to see some AA art, or maybe one day stopping by an inner-city YMCA and realizing all those little Black 4 yr olds have just as much potential and love as the Blonde ones.
In short, actually question your perceptions and what the evening news tells you. Maybe one day, Whites and Blacks can truly embrace one another, and threads such as this won't exist.
No, you ignoramus. YOU aren't quite getting it. I have never done anything to hold back black people. There are FAR FEWER African Americans than black Americans. Just because their skin is dark does NOT mean they were born in Africa, so you can start by getting that through your head. Secondly, why is it you think all white people are out to get the blacks? 99.999999% of whites have never said a hateful word about blacks or done anything hateful against the ethnic group. How hard is it for you to understand that I do not need to go to an art show, or read a book to have knowledge of the struggles of the poor? Just because someone is poor, does not mean they are oppressed, it does not mean they have less opportunities to learn and grow. In fact, there are more programs to help poor people in this country, and people of color, than there are to help rich, white kids, who may still have deadbeat, dirtbags for parents. Don't you see that people like you keep perpetuating these myths of hatred and anger, and in doing so, are pushing the cause for advancement of blacks backwards? You are doing nothing but slowing down progress by being a narrow minded idiot and demanding that white people "stop and admit, take a look around and immerse themselves" into a culture that they may not care about, and why should they? If they don't want to be involved in the black art scene, then so what? If they don't want to read works of literature by black writers, then so what? People are allowed their individual preferences, and that DOES NOT make them racist or hateful. FWIW, I grew up poor, low income, in a bad part of town, I played sports at the YMCA with plenty of black kids, played baseball with plenty of black kids. The kids that played sports are the ones who had parents that gave a ****. It is not the fault of a race, it is the fault of parents, for what kids grow up to become. Good parenting=good children=good adults. You can place the blame of poverty on white people, or the fact that there are more blacks in jail, whatever you want, but get some real facts, and a little common sense.
Aveo, with all due respect to you, and your opinion, I really don't give a monkey-fart in a monsoon about statistics, true or untrue
I'm going to do what I want, when I want, live where I want, and as long as I or anyone like me conduct myself in a respectful non-criminal manner, paying taxes, keeping my lawn and yard trimmed, speaking to and helping out my neighbors, and generally being a good and productive citizen, then I really don't see what the bloody problem is...
I'm sorry if a certain segment of the population does a James Brown and breaks out in a 'Yowwwww! Cold Sweat!' and starts pooping in their shorts at the mere mention or approach of a member of a minority racial or ethnic group, but that's THEIR problem, and they need to grow up and get over it...at the end of the day, we ALL are citizens of the USA...learn to actually interact with and talk to people of differing backgrounds, instead of sitting behind a PC and dithering on about statistics
First of all, reparations are a dead issue. This nation is 55 trillion in debt…..so no one in their right mind believes that would ever happen, when married with the fact that a large segment of society is still racist. Those are two insurmountable hurdles. Secondly, you don’t understand what citizenship means. When one becomes a citizen of this nation, whether by birth or by choice, they inherit the accrued assets AND LIABILITIES of the nation. There are many rights that Americans enjoy that come from the sacrifices of people hundreds of years ago. None of the people who made those sacrifices are alive…..yet you benefit from them today.
I have yet to hear a person make an argument about not wanting or deserving all the assets and freedoms born from the past……because they had no part in creating them or because it was centuries ago or because everyone who provided the benefits are dead. These are benefits they now enjoy through the rights of citizenship, accrued from the past. However, they will and do make the argument that THEY should be exempted from any role in the reconciliations of past liabilities created by this nation from acts sanctioned by the government long ago. You can’t be a person of principle and have it both ways. If you accept the inheritance, via citizenship, of the benefits of the past then you also are bound to the liabilities of the same past…….in principle. It’s a package deal. I understand your opposition to reparations, but your rationale is not tenable.
So, according to you, we should pay for all of our fathers crimes, no matter what they may be. If my father gets a 10 yr sentence for a crime and dies 5 yrs into it, should I serve the remaining 5 yrs?
So, according to you, we should pay for all of our fathers crimes, no matter what they may be. If my father gets a 10 yr sentence for a crime and dies 5 yrs into it, should I serve the remaining 5 yrs?
Your analogy does not map. If your father owned a business and passed away and he passed the business on to you, all the assets, liabilities and owners equity (created in the past by others) is yours as well, regardless of you having played any role in their manifestation. That is assuming that you accept the inheritance. That is how citizenship works. It comes with built in assets and liabilities that those who choose to remain citizens are beneficiaries (assets) of or responsible for (liabilites). Of course you are not liable for your father’s crimes unless you benefitted from them. If he robbed banks and you knew he robbed banks and you willfully accepted the proceeds of the robbery, then you are indeed liable as well. If you lived in a home that your father paid for through his crimes of bank robbery……..should you be allowed to stay in the home?
Your analogy does not map. If your father owned a business and passed away and he passed the business on to you, all the assets, liabilities and owners equity (created in the past by others) is yours as well, regardless of you having played any role in their manifestation. That is assuming that you accept the inheritance. That is how citizenship works. It comes with built in assets and liabilities that those who choose to remain citizens are beneficiaries (assets) of or responsible for (liabilites). Of course you are not liable for your father’s crimes unless you benefitted from them. If he robbed banks and you knew he robbed banks and you willfully accepted the proceeds of the robbery, then you are indeed liable as well. If you lived in a home that your father paid for through his crimes of bank robbery……..should you be allowed to stay in the home?
You don't see the hypocrisy in your own statement?
The majority of whites do acknowledge the damage of history, if you talk to them candidly. What they won't do is take ownership of a wrong they didn't commit, some 150 years later. They have their own plate of problems to deal with.
Talking about history is productive, lest one repeats it. Analyzing it for object lessons is valuable. The entire body of case law, for example is nothing but history for the analysis. (Though I'd argue, medical, scientific, industrial knowledge is a much more objective kind of knowledge. Political, case law, etc. are about opinions. Consider that even Aristotle broke things into "The Logic" and "The Rhetoric".)
This is hyperbole and a straw man. Let’s just say we forget about slavery all together. Let’s just say we focus on 100 year era of apartheid that followed slavery and lasted, legally, up to the late 60’s. There are millions of perpetrators and victims alive from this oppression, but you purposely left it out to forward the straw man that black oppression ended 150 years ago and all the perpetrators and victims are dead and gone and hence, there is nothing that can be done or should be done.
Yes, one should study history and note that in every generation, for the last 150 years, whites have rationalized a negative view of black people and have argued that “there is no race problem”. Whites have never been “Up to date” in recognizing the wrongs of their contemporary behavior, as a whole. There is like a 40 or 50 year lag in recognizing that the treatment of blacks in certain eras was wrong. IQ test basically test how well a person can recognize patterns. However, in order to recognize patterns, you have to have memory of those patterns stored somewhere in your brain. Therefore, you either have a low IQ as a result of not being able to recognize patterns or you have a low IQ for having a poor memory…..either way…..you are not coming off as intelligent….by any metric.
My family dates back to the early 1700's in the n.western and s.western Pennsylvainia area and never lived south of the Mason/ Dixon line. We never owned slaves, so, according to what you're saying I owe nothing, Correct?
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Okay...I'll See Your Smiley And Raise You Two...
