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Old 10-14-2013, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,607,793 times
Reputation: 10575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Read the statement again. "Controlling for SES" [socioeconomic status] means that socioeconomic status was accounted for. That's what controlling for means in scientific studies.

The fact that you do not know that means you have not an inkling about how scientific studies are conducted.
Exactly. He doesn't understand what "orders of magnitude" means either. He blusters and bluffs and he blows hard and long, and he makes things up and tries to deny it, and he twists what others say to fit his agenda, and he pretends to know more than he does, but in the end he's got no credibility at all.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,607,793 times
Reputation: 10575
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Beside, it takes some deliberate efforts (and extra expense) to avoid fluorides in toothpastes, mouthwashes, multivitamins, etc. You cannot avoid that stuff.
Another piece of your signature total nonsense.

Glancing at my supermarket shelves today I saw a number of non-fluoridated toothpastes in everyday brands right out in plain sight (Toms of Maine, XyliWhite, non-fluoride Crest and Colgate varieties, a house brand) and non-fluoridated Listerine and other mouthwashes, and then on to the Vitamin section where I saw Nature Made and other brands which do not contain fluorides. And the ones that do clearly say that they do. For many people it is a desirable feature.

The game is up. You've been caught just making up stuff like this so many times. Why don't you stop now?
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
15,265 posts, read 12,566,166 times
Reputation: 22096
Cant talk the contaminated drinking water though, can we....as far as scientists go.... why are they still on the news telling us that Glasgow has been shown to have a higher incidence of asthma and allergy compared to some other places in the UK.....YOUZYWOWZY..... and for all these years weve waited with baited breath to hear that evidence.... what a breakthrough...when the Eastend of Glasgow has the poorest health rates of heart disease.. lung problems for many many years.... has anyone else noticed the breakthroughs of science on the news. Im being a bit satirical here.. I know there are many clever people out there working as scientists and finding cures for illnesses.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,607,793 times
Reputation: 10575
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Cant talk the contaminated drinking water though, can we....as far as scientists go.... why are they still on the news telling us that Glasgow has been shown to have a higher incidence of asthma and allergy compared to some other places in the UK....
But none of that has anything to do with fluoridation, and as far as I know Glasgow water is not fluoridated, so I'm not clear what you're trying to say.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:55 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
15,265 posts, read 12,566,166 times
Reputation: 22096
Cant I fight for the rights of others...its not just about ME....
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:54 AM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,061,465 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Another piece of your signature total nonsense.

Glancing at my supermarket shelves today I saw a number of non-fluoridated toothpastes in everyday brands right out in plain sight (Toms of Maine, XyliWhite, non-fluoride Crest and Colgate varieties, a house brand) and non-fluoridated Listerine and other mouthwashes, and then on to the Vitamin section where I saw Nature Made and other brands which do not contain fluorides. And the ones that do clearly say that they do. For many people it is a desirable feature.

The game is up. You've been caught just making up stuff like this so many times. Why don't you stop now?
Anyone shopping at the generic stores (like Wall Mart, Kroger, etc.) knows that you are full of it. Some Wall Marts carry non-fluoridated Toms toothpaste (on a good day) and little else, it costs extra, but that's was not even the point. As for non-fluoridated Crest and Colgate etc. good luck finding those in the piles of the fluoridated stuff on the generic store shelves. As I said, it takes efforts to buy non-fluoridated stuff, it takes no efforts or label reading at all to get fluoridated goodness.

Again, you are getting distracted on deconstruction of totally tertiary points to give credibility to your main point. What school of deconstruction is that, btw?
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:37 AM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,061,465 times
Reputation: 6322
[quote=suzy_q2010;31798081]
Quote:

Since NJ does not tell us its statistics on children, we cannot compare it to other states.
Since children tend to become adults we can compare adult oral health of NJ residents to the oral health of residents of other states, can we? Even your data doesn't show that adult residents of NJ experience dental health catastrophe because of lack of fluorides in water.
Quote:
"Oral health" is not the same as tooth decay. It includes everything up to and including oral cancer. Since fluoride is relevant only to caries, only statistics pertaining to caries are relevant.
What you are trying to suggest is that NJ residents have more caries but less oral cancer etc. thus their average oral health numbers don't look that bad.
Quote:
Why would we predict "oral health disaster? We would predict about 38% more cavities in NJ. We can't know because NJ chooses not to tell us.
So you want to say that adult NJ residents have 38% more cavities and 38% less oral cancer etc.. Assuming this far fetched assumption is correct, don't you think that there is correlation between fluoridation of water and increased oral cancer rates etc.? What would you personally prefer, caries or oral cancer, assuming you had to choose?
Quote:
You are making the wrong comparison. You do not compare 1945 to 2013, you compare with and without fluoride in 1945 or with and without fluoride in 2013. Would you compare the treatment of coronary artey disease in 1945 to the treatment of coronary artery disease in 2013?
I make correct comparison because comparing fluoridated to non-fluoridated in 2013 is far less conclusive than you want it to be.
Quote:
You are ignoring the major conclusion of the study: the rates did not differ between the fluoridated and non-fluoridated groups based on socioeconomic status. There were differences between some of the subgroups within the fluoridated group and within the nonfluoridated group, but not all of them.
Since we can read only abstract, and abstract says clearly that marked difference between dmf indexes in fluoridated and non-fluoridated communities exist only for the lowest socioeconomic status group ( but the difference was significant only in SES group (5&6) (P < 0.01). it's you who are ignoring the major conclusion of the study. It appears that low income crowd is the most affected by fluoride goodness, which is a ridiculous assumption to make. There are other factors the study ignored.
Quote:
If you believe that people moving from place to place makes a significant difference, provide some evidence to support it. Show that it makes a significant difference.
What about you providing evidence that moving from fluoridated place to non-fluoridated and back don't make significant difference? If there is no difference, don't you think it questions your original claim?
Quote:
Read the statement again. "Controlling for SES" [socioeconomic status] means that socioeconomic status was accounted for. That's what controlling for means in scientific studies.
Since they didn't present "controlled" results (caries vs fluoridation vs social class), I don't care what they put in a statement.
Quote:
What about the cost of living in metro areas? Did you control for that? And who are these multitudes of people who move around from place to place? How many of them are there?
It's way more expensive (measured in labor hours) to live in rural areas. Why do you think people flock to towns and cities? Rural life is a luxury. If you pay for your rural life with your rural wages, there is not much left for dentists. It's only for the folks who've made their big money in cities, rural COL seems to be low.

24 percent of Americans reported moving from their city or area in the past five years.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: DC
6,520 posts, read 6,453,689 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Cant talk the contaminated drinking water though, can we....as far as scientists go.... why are they still on the news telling us that Glasgow has been shown to have a higher incidence of asthma and allergy compared to some other places in the UK.....YOUZYWOWZY..... and for all these years weve waited with baited breath to hear that evidence.... what a breakthrough...when the Eastend of Glasgow has the poorest health rates of heart disease.. lung problems for many many years.... has anyone else noticed the breakthroughs of science on the news. Im being a bit satirical here.. I know there are many clever people out there working as scientists and finding cures for illnesses.
I don't think many people care about what happens in Glasgow. It's a nice little city, but when people list the top 20 cities of the world, Glasgow isn't mentioned.

The issue is water fluoridation and the science is compelling, it reduces tooth decay without harmful side effects. This isn't news as civilized areas have been adding it to drinking water for at least 50 year. This is one of our least controversial public health initiative, but someone is against anything government does.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:27 AM
 
Location: DC
6,520 posts, read 6,453,689 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Anyone shopping at the generic stores (like Wall Mart, Kroger, etc.) knows that you are full of it. Some Wall Marts carry non-fluoridated Toms toothpaste (on a good day) and little else, it costs extra, but that's was not even the point. As for non-fluoridated Crest and Colgate etc. good luck finding those in the piles of the fluoridated stuff on the generic store shelves. As I said, it takes efforts to buy non-fluoridated stuff, it takes no efforts or label reading at all to get fluoridated goodness.
?
It would take about 1/2 the effort you have expended on here preaching your nonsense.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:37 AM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,061,465 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It would take about 1/2 the effort you have expended on here preaching your nonsense.
And how would you know that living in DC and preaching your nonsense?

I'm pretty sure that all those self-less government servants raking in 6-7 figures in DC don't frequent the stores frequented by the proles, not speaking of them having cutting edge water filtration systems eliminating all that public good from their drinking water.
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