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Old 04-23-2019, 08:03 PM
 
Location: IN
20,786 posts, read 35,818,512 times
Reputation: 13206

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You can't make this nonsense up, ignoring concrete economic statistical data- expecting consumers to pay far more in electricity rates as all other sources rapidly decrease in price:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ng/3411536002/
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,935 posts, read 22,198,202 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Correct, and there are thousands of jobs at stake. Sure, eventually, coal-fired electric plants will go away, and coal will be mainly used for steel production and chemical applications. Fracked natural gas is replacing coal in electric plants at a rapid pace. But it should happen gradually and organically instead of by arbitrary fiat that throws thousands out of work for capricious reasons.

Moderator cut: off-topic rant

We have lots of problems to solve in this country, but coal hardly ranks as one of the top ones.
These plants are responsible for the streams, rivers, and lakes around me being contaminated with mercury, the fish being unsafe to eat, etc. Jobs don't justify being allowed to poison water and in turn people.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:39 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,034,882 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
These plants are responsible for the streams, rivers, and lakes around me being contaminated with mercury, the fish being unsafe to eat, etc. Jobs don't justify being allowed to poison water and in turn people.

Another example of unsubstantiated fantasy about the effects of industry on the environment.


I was doing research in my college days 50 y/a in Chicago. At that time the alewives were a big problem in L. Michigan and really fouled the beaches every spring a spawn time with their spent carcasses. They guy in the next lab was a paleologist who got specimens from the near-by Mazon R. valley-- a very fossil rich area. He collected alewife specimens and fossil fish specimens and analyzed them for Hg: IDENTICAL levels although specimens were separated by 100 million years. Hg is in the environment naturally.


Nobody should be fouling the water with industrial waste, but we reached the point of diminishing returns on regulations long ago.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
2,717 posts, read 908,772 times
Reputation: 2766
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Okay, go move on top of a coal power plant and see how much you enjoy it. NIPSCO and the public should easily prevail given facts and reality. However, facts and reality don't seem to matter anymore.
I grew up right next to a coal fired plant.
Close enough I could watch people walking on the catwalks on the plant.
Close enough that, twice, crusher house explosions cracked my windows.

Coal could eventually be replaced by something else, but as "blisterpeanuts" said:
"But it should happen gradually and organically instead of by arbitrary fiat that throws thousands out of work for capricious reasons."

And not for political reasons, either.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:39 PM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102
All of the coal mavens can whine and complain, but renewable resources and natural gas are shutting those plants down about as fast as a utility can take action. Stick a fork in it, coal is done.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/us-...-finds/540931/
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
2,717 posts, read 908,772 times
Reputation: 2766
Well, we can always get coal burning stoves, and burn it ourselves

Good cheap fuel. Easy to store. If the electric companies
don't want to use it, it will be cheaper for the rest of us.
I grew up with a pot belly stove.
I am sure there are better ones today, that won't break the bank.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:33 PM
 
12,504 posts, read 16,584,283 times
Reputation: 24117
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
Well, we can always get coal burning stoves, and burn it ourselves

Good cheap fuel. Easy to store. If the electric companies
don't want to use it, it will be cheaper for the rest of us.
I grew up with a pot belly stove.
I am sure there are better ones today, that won't break the bank.
A few years ago I sold an old small potbellied coal stove to a young couple for $75. They wanted it to put in their foyer of their west Texas McMansion. I'm pretty sure the little stove came out of a Santa Fe caboose which the railroad companies used to heat the caboose cabins back in the day. Probably sold it too cheap but sometimes you get tired of tripping over things you never use in the barns.
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:26 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,935 posts, read 22,198,202 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Another example of unsubstantiated fantasy about the effects of industry on the environment.


I was doing research in my college days 50 y/a in Chicago. At that time the alewives were a big problem in L. Michigan and really fouled the beaches every spring a spawn time with their spent carcasses. They guy in the next lab was a paleologist who got specimens from the near-by Mazon R. valley-- a very fossil rich area. He collected alewife specimens and fossil fish specimens and analyzed them for Hg: IDENTICAL levels although specimens were separated by 100 million years. Hg is in the environment naturally.


Nobody should be fouling the water with industrial waste, but we reached the point of diminishing returns on regulations long ago.
No my statements are well backed by research.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/929...93b9160cf7.pdf

https://www.pca.state.mn.us/water/re...amination-fish
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:52 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,034,882 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post


No, it's backed by meaningless publications.


In fact, in 2013, only ~1300 people were reported in the US to have acute exposure to Hg and only 24 of them got sick from it. NOBODY got sick from any chronic environmental exposures. https://www.medscape.com/answers/117...80257-overview


Your first reference is a meaningless account of how much Hg is expressed from coal plants each year. NO CONTROL info from yrs before coal burning plants is given for comparison. I have to laugh at their number of "58,000 lb of Hg are emitted each yea- detectable over a 1500 mile radius around the plant." What is that, something like one effing molecule per sq yd?


Please note that any Hg in coal, the remains of once living plants, was picked up from the environment in the first place by those plants. Those ancient plants did not manufacture it. We can therefore deduce that currently living plants are also picking up the same amount of naturally occurring Hg in the environment-- a point my previous post made obvious.


Also note that any recommendations made about safe levels of Hg in fish are arbitrary. There is simply no evidence supporting the numbers. The bureaucrats used the same methods to determine the safe levels here that they do in making auto exhaust emission goals: they pick the numbers out of their collective a--- um, thin air. No science to support it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:44 PM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102
The debate is over guys. New wind and solar are so cheap that even those who love dirty coal plants are shutting them down. Take the loss guys. Pv < C
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